Our planet

[transam]

.

 

[noseall]

So what is Attenborough prattling on about then?

The Earth as we know it and enjoy it.

The Earth will recover (once rid of humans) no doubt. Those animals that are extinct now will still be extinct in the future.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

wonder what excuses bobby will come up with on behalf of the krouts and their coal burning.

It is disappointing that you feel the need to resort to racist terms to express yourself. Or maybe it was intentional behaviour of yours to divert the discussion.
The krauts (I expect the auto censor to blank out the word because you intentionally miss-spelled it to avoid the auto censor, because you are aware that it is a derogatory term), is a derogatory term.
It was a term coined in WW1.

It is considered offensive by Germans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraut​

 

[sxturbo]

It is disappointing that you feel the need to resort to racist terms to express yourself. Or maybe it was intentional behaviour of yours to divert the discussion.
The krauts (I expect the auto censor to blank out the word because you intentionally miss-spelled it to avoid the auto censor, because you are aware that it is a derogatory term), is a derogatory term.
It was a term coined in WW1.

It is considered offensive by Germans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraut​

nope i just misspelled it, i was merely calling he germans herbs

 

[transam]

The polar ice caps are melting at an alarming rate

( or so they say)

some countries will be in able to sustain there populations ? Due to permanent flooding

which will cause massive population movement / refugee crisis

 

[ajohn]

Population growth is still a problem really even at 2.4 if it's already too high which it probably is. These sorts of things are usually self limiting. You can find some good examples on a video on youtube when forecasts fail due to that but the question with this one is what will limit it. It seems China enforced birth control for a while at least. It wasn't well received. Larger families were popular in the UK not all that long ago. 2 reasons, some didn't make it and the younger generation looking after the old. The state took that over based on the working paying for the retired. Then that changed with a rather low state back up being available but working time to get that extended as well. Birthrate changes alter the age ranges in the population - fewer people going into the bottom end to support it all and people living longer.

We live in a consumer society where the basic idea is to get more and more people to buy as often as possible. That uses up materials and energy. Car ownership exploded in the UK not all that long ago. One of the side effects was people could easily travel further to work. Buses in B'ham were timed to get people to work especially larger factories and concentrated manufacturing areas. Don't I know it - there was even one to get me there if I was late. More and more cars meant trip times went up - for buses as well.

We still are a consumer society. How much we buy is one of the metrics on how well our country is doing. The old one has gone.

These few things make it difficult to find a fix so currently the answer is to pass the problem down to the public. Insulate your house etc, change to an electric car even though the grid probably can't take the load that would be needed to replace fuel. The energy and rather a lot of it needs to come from some where. Cut your air miles when the providers want business as do people want their holidays. Some needs are provided by countries that pollute more. These want to grow as well.

And this is just part of the problem

 

[transam]

There was some documentary or report on the telly a good while back from Greenland

the ice cap is melting and opening up the interior which allows access for mining of precious metals etc

Greenland’s constitution says that the wealth of the nation is shared out amongst the population

as there are only about half a million greenlanders ? They could all be in for a few squid

Some green lander bloke was well happy with global warming he was growing strawberries in his garden and could also be in for a bumper pay out

 

[wobs]

Population growth is still a problem really even at 2.4 if it's already too high which it probably is. These sorts of things are usually self limiting. You can find some good examples on a video on youtube when forecasts fail due to that but the question with this one is what will limit it. It seems China enforced birth control for a while at least. It wasn't well received. Larger families were popular in the UK not all that long ago. 2 reasons, some didn't make it and the younger generation looking after the old. The state took that over based on the working paying for the retired. Then that changed with a rather low state back up being available but working time to get that extended as well. Birthrate changes alter the age ranges in the population - fewer people going into the bottom end to support it all and people living longer.

A recent report suggests the fertility rate is dropping quicker than expected:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...illages?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB
"An influential study published in the Lancet last year predicted that the global population would come to a peak much earlier than expected – reaching 9.73 billion in 2064 – before dropping to 8.79 billion by 2100. Falling birthrates, noted the authors, were likely to have significant “economic, social, environmental, and geopolitical consequences” around the world."
Study here:
https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(20)30677-2/fulltext#

One issue that is often overlooked is the fact that people are living longer, meaning that population growth will continue, even if the birth rate drops.

We live in a consumer society where the basic idea is to get more and more people to buy as often as possible. That uses up materials and energy. Car ownership exploded in the UK not all that long ago. One of the side effects was people could easily travel further to work. Buses in B'ham were timed to get people to work especially larger factories and concentrated manufacturing areas. Don't I know it - there was even one to get me there if I was late. More and more cars meant trip times went up - for buses as well.

We still are a consumer society. How much we buy is one of the metrics on how well our country is doing. The old one has gone.

These few things make it difficult to find a fix so currently the answer is to pass the problem down to the public. Insulate your house etc, change to an electric car even though the grid probably can't take the load that would be needed to replace fuel. The energy and rather a lot of it needs to come from some where. Cut your air miles when the providers want business as do people want their holidays. Some needs are provided by countries that pollute more. These want to grow as well.

And this is just part of the problem

A consumer society based upon economic growth, which is the real killer. The good news hidden in this is that there is a limit to how much physical stuff people will buy. An example of this is Ikea - they have said they have hit this limit in the UK:
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...k-home-furnishings-says-ikea-boss-consumerism

But limiting economic growth is more important, as countries catch up to us, and drive this growth further. We need to work out how to have a more sustainable growth and not deprive poorer nations from enjoying a better lifestyle, which is far from simple, but not impossible. A good starting point for this is the book Doughnut Economics by Kate Ramworth. It doesn't have all the answers, but its certainly a start.

Remember, even if we went carbon free, and sucked all of the excess CO2 from the atmosphere, economic growth would still cause the Earth to heat up eventually, owing to waste heat, in about 200years.

As for car ownership... well that is a bit tricky to reduce when you have urban design based upon car use. See my comments on the cycling thread.

 

[JP_]

But how did we get here in the first place. Is it globalisation? Our desire to have everything and anything as cheap as possible, make as much profit as possible..

I think it is largely about profit and capitalism, unfortunately. Most of the waste and destruction we cause is purely to help increase profit margins.
Last year I tried growing veg in my garden. This was a real eye opener - it's bloody hard to grow anywhere near enough food for a family, subsistence living is tough. But, that form of living is currently the only waste free option.

We need to do more local, less trade! Goes against everything the world has been building on over the last 2-300 years.

 

[JP_]

Well yes but probably unable to sustain life as we know it

But life as we know it is a very recent thing - life today is nothing life only 100 years ago, nothing like only 50 years ago really.

The planet will survive, life will continue, humans will prosper.

The problem is, many people will suffer more - we don't live in an equal world, and when some people take the lions share, others starve and are driven out.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

The planet will survive, life will continue, humans will prosper.

The continuation of a species s not a given.
A certain population level is required to sustain that species.
When population density falls below a critical level in-breeding causes problems, assuming that cultural or moral attitudes allows.

In other words, what is the minimum number of people required to deliver and successfully plant a self-sustaining population of Homo sapiens on another Earth?
The magic number

The number Marin came up with is 98. Just 98 healthy people would be needed to operate the ship over many generations and to set up a healthy (non-inbred) population on another world,
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/how-many-humans-would-it-take-keep-our-species-alive-ncna900151​

Hmm?
That is assuming that all the population are concentrated in the same place, and in a closed environment.

“Like H.G. Wells wrote, it’s the universe or nothing,” Smith says. “Here’s a guarantee: If we stay on Earth, eventually we become extinct.”​

 

[JP_]

When population density falls below a critical level in-breeding causes problems, assuming that cultural or moral attitudes allows.

Yeah, but that is pretty low population, and there'll still be a king with all the money.

 

[StephenStephen]

There are a number of practical actions that we can take, that do make a difference:

-change bank (Triodos, co-operative bank etc)

-fly less

-eat less meat (which is not the same thing as becoming a militant vegan!)

-move investments (Triodosm rcology building soc, ethex etc)

-change our home power provider (grren energy, ecotricity etc)

-consider an electric vehicle

-buy less

-buy local

...and none of that includes all the more direct political actions we might take...

UK citizens have more power in many ways than most people in the world, so it's good to use it!

 

[StephenStephen]

...for info on why population growth isn't a long term problem - I found BBC bitesize geography helpful... (The S shaped curve and all that...)

 

[Trazor]

UK citizens have more power in many ways than most people in the world, so it's good to use it!

The conspiratorial Idiots/Nutters on here (Sorry, I meant the few highly informed, highly intelligent Covid deniers.) would intensely disagree with that...........