Overall Load on Double Socket on Spur

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Hi. I currently have two switched connection units above the worktop each feeding a single socket below the worktop (one for washing machine and one for tumble dryer). I would like to change the use of one of the switched connection units.
In order to do this I am proposing to change the single socket fed from one of the switched connection units to a double. I believe it's cceptable to have one double socket on a spur but bearing in mind that both the washing machine and tumble dryer will be used together at times is this acceptable from a an overall load point of view?
I'd appreciate your advice.
 
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They will each require about 2.5kW on maximum load, this could depend on what cycle there are on simultaneously.
But worse case scenario would be 5kW, so the demand would be greater than 21A, so 13A FCU is not acceptable with regards to load.
 
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Also, many double sockets are only rated at 13amps in total. Especially cheaper makes.
I often go to sites where a double socket has been overloaded and has fried itself with two appliances plugged in.
 
If the ring is easily accessible it may be fairly easy to add another FCU and socket next to the existing ones and pull cables through. (assuming it's a ring)
 
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They will each require about 2.5kW on maximum load, this could depend on what cycle there are on simultaneously. ... But worse case scenario would be 5kW, so the demand would be greater than 21A, so 13A FCU is not acceptable with regards to load.
I agree that a 13A FCU would not be appropriate, but is the OP actually talking about an FCU when he speaks of a 'switched connection unit'- are you sure he's not just talking about a switch? There's not really any obvious reason why someone would install a fused spur to supply one dedicated single socket for a specific appliance.

In any event, as TTC has said, the issue is not so much about what is supplying it but, rather, the idea of running a washing machine and tumble dryer (or any other two 'large' loads) off the same double socket - which is, IMO, always potentially bad news.

Kind Regards, John
 
I was referring to a switch without a fuse (as JohnW2 suggested).
However, you are all singing from the same sheet. I will add a further spur from the ring and leave existing well alone. Thanks for all your replies :)
 
Also, many double sockets are only rated at 13amps in total. Especially cheaper makes. I often go to sites where a double socket has been overloaded and has fried itself with two appliances plugged in.
I certainly agree that two potentially heavy loads plugged into one double socket is generally bad news.

However, I really wish we could get some clarity about the 'rating' business for double sockets. IIRC, our extensive discussions in the past have failed to identify (m)any manufacturers who make a totally unambiguous statement. I certainly don't recall any manufacturers explicitly saying '13A total' or '2 x 13A continuous loads'. There is this widespread belief that the maximum (can hardly call it a 'rating', since it's very rarely mentioned by manufacturers!) is often 20A - seemingly based partially on the BS1363 temperature rise test and partially on the fact that, in allowing a double socket to be supplied with a cable of 20A CSA (as an unfused spur), the regs seem to assume that 20A is the maximum load on a double socket.

It's actually difficult to see why any double sockets should be rated at only 13A total, given that they presumably have to be able to pass the BS1363 temp rise test at 20A total.

It would seem so simple for manufacturers to make a simple unambiguous statement about the maximum loading of their double sockets that I'm rather amazed than none seem to do it! The answer may, of course be that they don't really know, if all they do are the tests required by BS1363. Also, as previously discussed, I'm also rather surprised that they are allowed to produce double sockets which cannot safely and reliably serve two continuous 13A loads, since that is certainly what many members of the general public is going to assume they can do,

Kind Regards, John
 
Cut and pasted from another thread:

The advice and statements by some contributors to this forum must be treated with caution. There are no experts, we are all learning. I hope the following dissertation, clears the confusion which has arisen on what is a fairly important topic.

The current rating for the twin socket, is greater than that of the single socket and is largely due to the increased thermal heat dissipation, in the case of the twin socket. The rating of any electrical carrying conductor whether a cable, copper bar etc., obviously depends on the rate at which the heat is transferred to the surroundings. There is an increased surface area and thermal mass in the case of the twin socket, this is variable and depends upon the manufacturers’ design. The total thermal current rating for 2 plugs in the same twin socket, is above 13A for both; but not double (26A), it is about 19A (see the article below), but the specific manufacturer must be consulted for recommendations.
Fortunately, for most situations, this is not something to worry about, diversity would be applicable, where two appliances are plugged into the same twin socket outlet, i.e. it would be very unusual to have two appliances, each continuously pulling 13A).

The following article is from MK: -

All MK socket-outlets are manufactured to comply with BS1363 part 2: 1995 and are rated at 13A per unit. Double socket-outlets have been manufactured and tested to exceed this rating by margin that allows electrical safety and reduces the risk of heat and mechanical damage to components due to overloading. It should be noted that BS1363 part 2: 1995 does not allow double sockets to operate at twice the permissible maximum loading and it should be remembered that double socket-outlets are not manufactured to be able to withstand a 26A load for sustained periods of time.

Research by ourselves and third party organisations has shown that all MK double sockets can safely withstand a continuous load of 19.5A for an indefinite period. Increasing the load slightly will begin to cause heat and mechanical stresses on the components in a relatively short period. Testing showed that a load of 22.3A was sufficient to cause heat stress that would cause a browning of the faceplates and sufficient heat to cause insulation damage to cable cores. A load of 24A for 43 hours was sufficient to cause significant heat damage to the material in which the socket-outlet was situated and within 75 hours sufficient to cause significant damage that would lead to the very real potential of fire.

MK recommend that users of their sockets consult professional design Engineers when designing installations to avoid the possibility of heat and mechanical stress to components and installations caused by overloading of MK socket-outlets.

Striving for perfection in an imperfect world.
 
Cut and pasted from another thread:
Indeed, I remember it well, but there are still confusions and ambiguities all over the place...
The current rating for the twin socket, is greater than that of the single socket and is largely due to the increased thermal heat dissipation, in the case of the twin socket. .... The total thermal current rating for 2 plugs in the same twin socket, is above 13A for both...
What exactly does that last sentence mean? It seems to imply that each of the plugs can safely carry >13A!
... but not double (26A), it is about 19A (see the article below)
...whch doesn't really help me to understand the first part of the sentence (above).
All MK socket-outlets are manufactured to comply with BS1363 part 2: 1995 and are rated at 13A per unit.
'per unit' is very ambiguous in this situation. From what they go on to say, one assumes they mean 'per double socket'. Furthermore, as I wrote earlier, unless they could safely stand 20A 'per double socket' for the prescribed test duration, they would not be compliant with BS1363.
It should be noted that BS1363 part 2: 1995 does not allow double sockets to operate at twice the permissible maximum loading ...
What on earth? :) Who would dream that anything could operate safely at "twice the permissible maximum loading"? - that is very bad wording! Anyway, the Standard merely defines the required properties of a product and does not (and cannot) control how they are used.
... and it should be remembered that double socket-outlets are not manufactured to be able to withstand a 26A load for sustained periods of time.
That, at last, is what we actually wanted to know, and the figures which MK then go on to quote reinforce the statement ... and that, of course, corresponds with the experiences of most of us.

Kind Regards, John
 
What is the difference between a double socket and two singles next to and touching each other as far as heat dissipation is concerned?

Apart from twice the number of screw terminals but I don't suppose it is the screw terminals that overheat.
 
Apart from twice the number of screw terminals but I don't suppose it is the screw terminals that overheat.
I recall that the riviting / swaging between cable clamp and the formed copper connecting strips were the resistive joints that created heating.

Riviting swaging is a weak point in other heavy current assemblies so it it logical that the same applied to 13 amp sockets
 
Riviting swaging is a weak point in other heavy current assemblies so it it logical that the same applied to 13 amp sockets
Yes, thanks.

I did think of that after I posted the question so, in fact, it's not actually the dissipation of the heat that is the problem but more the causing of the heat by weak/poor manufacturing.
 
And also that the contact between the plug and the socket will degrade over time if the plug is not removed and re-inserted from time to time, thus cleaning the contact surfaces.

IMO Another plus point for screwed flex connector plates, rather than plugs and sockets for higher current devices.
 
Apart from twice the number of screw terminals but I don't suppose it is the screw terminals that overheat.
I recall that the riviting / swaging between cable clamp and the formed copper connecting strips were the resistive joints that created heating. Riviting swaging is a weak point in other heavy current assemblies so it it logical that the same applied to 13 amp sockets
Are there necessarily any more such joints in the current path to one of the outlets in a double socket as compared with a single one?

However, as EFLI also went on to say in a subsequent post, one certainly does wonder whether the issue arises due to increased heat production, rather than less dissipation, in double sockets.

RF, are you around? It might be interesting to know (a) how tempertaure rise with 6.5A being drawn through each of the two outlets (on a double socket) compares with 13A being drawn through one of them (the other being unused) and (b) how the temperature rise with 13A being drawn through one outlet of a double socket (the other being unused) compares withy that when a single socket is used.

Kind Regards, John
 
Whether it is single or double there is only one terminal each for live and neutral cables and the entire current has to pass from the barrels of these terminals to the interconnecting strips and this is ( most likely ) the main source of heat
 

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