Part P and first fix

[Idrisdraig]

My sister has taken on a propety that has some unfinished work in an outbuilding. The electrics are incomplete and we will be getting a spark to finish the installtion and issue a Part P certificate.

In the meantime, most of the first fix has been completed. If we leave all the junction boxes etc accessible, and clad the stud work and ceilings that don't need any other work, will that be likely to cause any problems when it comes to an inspection?

 

[Taylortwocities]

My sister has taken on a propety that has some unfinished work in an outbuilding. The electrics are incomplete and we will be getting a spark to finish the installtion and issue a Part P certificate.

In the meantime, most of the first fix has been completed. If we leave all the junction boxes etc accessible, and clad the stud work and ceilings that don't need any other work, will that be likely to cause any problems when it comes to an inspection?

Yes. There will be problems.

No electrician worth his salt will put his name on a certificate unless he can CERTIFY that he has designed, installed and tested the installation.
If you leave the cabling open, AT THIS STAGE, it MAY be possible to persuade an electrician to inspect what has been done up to now, finish the 2nd fix and then certify and NOTIFY the installation.

If you cover all the cables, an electrician can only report on what he finds at the ends of the wires. He cannot certify that the installation complies with BS7671 (The Wiring Regulations). And an Installation Report may not be sufficient to satisfy the local authority that everything is in order. And without that, you'll not get a Certificate of Completion from LABC.

I have a couple of additional comments.
1. What is a Part P certificate?
2. Why isn't the electrician who did the first fix carrying out the rest of the job?
3. When you applied to LABC, Who did you tell them would be doing the electrics?

 

[JohnW2]

2. Why isn't the electrician who did the first fix carrying out the rest of the job?

Despite the "in the meantime", I thought that the OP meant that the first fix had been undertaken by some (unknown) electrician before the OP's sister took possession of the property.

3. When you applied to LABC, Who did you tell them would be doing the electrics?

You seem to be assuming that work in the outbuilding is part of a project which requires LABC approval (and most work in outbuildings wouldn't require it), but we haven't been told that. Furthermore, if that were the case, the LABC application would presumably have taken place under previous ownership.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Idrisdraig]

I don't know the situation with regards to building control, nor who the existing electrics were installed by.

I've not seen the building yet - im just going on my sisyer's description, and it's possible some of the wiring is already inaccessible (I guess the installer expected to finish it). For all I know some of it may already have been signed off and LABC informed and additional sockets and lighting were being added (which may not require inspection as I understand it from reading up on Part P).

Obviously it's not practicable to start tearing open walls to visually inspect a single run of clipped in T&E, so what is the situation WRT getting existing work inspected by a sparkie?

 

[ericmark]

Electricians can die, so there has to be a method, likely an application to the LABC and they we have to decide what if anything needs exposing.

I took over a job back in 2006 so Part P was quite new, the builder ran off into the Welsh hills around Cornwen never to be seen again. So both building work and electric work to complete. I wrote out the installation certificate being careful to indicate which bits were done by the electrician who had run off. I fully expected it to be rejected, however it was accepted and a completion certificate issued.

In England we now have third party inspectors as well as the LABC but not in Wales. It is all down to how jobs worth the LABC inspector is.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't know the situation with regards to building control, nor who the existing electrics were installed by .... For all I know some of it may already have been signed off and LABC informed and additional sockets and lighting were being added ....

As I impliued, that's what I suspected.

(which may not require inspection as I understand it from reading up on Part P). ... Obviously it's not practicable to start tearing open walls to visually inspect a single run of clipped in T&E, so what is the situation WRT getting existing work inspected by a sparkie?

There should be no problem getting an electrician to inspect and test whatever is accessible - what they can't (or shouldn't!) do is sign bits of paper which claim that they designed and installed electrical things if that is not true. The only difficulties would areise if it were work that needed to be notified to LABC - but, as I said, that may well not be the case, particularly if you are in England (rather than Wales). However, even if it were notifiable, talking to LABC ought to be able to find a route forward - as has been said, it's a fact of life (or the opposite!) that electricians die, disappear or get sacked before completing a job, and sensible building inspectors accept that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[RF Lighting]

If we leave all the junction boxes etc accessible, and clad the stud work and ceilings that don't need any other work, will that be likely to cause any problems when it comes to an inspection?

There shouldn’t be any junction boxes on a new installation. Get the electrics inspected now. It’ll be easier to rewire it now without any cladding getting in the way.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Even if there are junction boxes, they must remain accessible, even after plastering etc, unless the junction is what is known as a “maintenance free” type.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There shouldn’t be any junction boxes on a new installation.

How would you install CH system wiring without a wiring centre?

If you had a room with, say, 8 wall lights in total, what is better about having two cables running down the wall to each one, looping all around the perimeter of the room, than using a star topology from a JB?

 

[RF Lighting]

Junction boxes are not required on a new job. Anyone that tells you they are probably isn't very good at designing electrical installations. I genuinely can not remember the last time in installed one.

A wiring centre for a heating system would not be installed at first fix.

 

[crystal ball]

Might not be required but its down to preference, what precisely is wrong with using a 701 for lighting?

 

[RF Lighting]

What's wrong with using SWA for lighting?

Which is easier to fault find when it goes wrong - an installation with hidden joint boxes, or an installation where every termination is at a light fitting or switch?

 

[crystal ball]

Who said it was hidden, nothing wrong with SWA for lighting in the right situation

 

[RF Lighting]

I don't think a junction box mounted on my living room wall would look very attractive.

In the right situation.

 

[crystal ball]

My own preference would be near the loft hatch reachable from a ladder, can test every cable from one place if needs be, I like to use SWA for outside lighting