Pointless squabble: sockets on lighting circuits

[winston1]

As you say you are not supposed to put 13 amp sockets on a lighting circuit THEN DON'T DO IT. It is actually not forbidden as the legislators have not yet realised anyone would be so stupid to do it.

I cannot see from your switch picture what is what. Don't assume blue wires are neutral. You need a proper test meter to work it out.

 

[Taylortwocities]

you are not supposed to put 13 amp sockets on a lighting circuit THEN DON'T DO IT. It is actually not forbidden

Dear go3easy. Please be aware that there has been much discussion about this little issue.
Winston has a very short attention span and he (conveniently) forgets anything that does not meet up with his personal position on how the World should be run (ie rules according to Winston).

BS 7671 actually SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS a BS1363-2 socket to be attached to a lighting circuit.
Winston, please see regulation 559.6.1.1
Winston will also tell you that an FCU (BS1363-4) must not be attached to a lighting circuit. Well it jolly well can.

So if you need a 13A square pin socket on your lighting circuit, then go ahead. Winston will warn, "what if someone plugs a MIG welder, or an induction hob into the socket!!??".
Well, nothing will happen, as the circuit will be protected by a 6A current-limiting device (MCB, etc)

I may be able to provide a better guidance on how to answer your original question, can you provide a better picture of the wiring behind the switch. Specifically, is there a terminal block there with a lot of blue (neutral) wires in it?

And, do you have a voltage tester, like a multimeter (NOT a neon screwdriver)?

 

[winston1]

Find out.

Has anybody given you a sensible reason not to?

Yes. Someone some day will plug in a larger load, and thus the lighting MCB will trip, plunging the area into darkness at a critical moment.

 

[winston1]

It’s not he best photo I know. What problems can the 13a socket cause? If it’s only to power the led light strips that use 20w? The circuit is all RCD protected

Some someone will plug in a large load and the MCB will, trip,plunging the area into darkness possibly at a critical moment.

RCD protection does not protect against overloads.

 

[winston1]

BS 7671 actually SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS a BS1363-2 socket to be attached to a lighting circuit.

I did say it was not forbidden. I also said it was because the legislators had not realised anyone would be so stupid to do it.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes. Someone some day will plug in a larger load, and thus the lighting MCB will trip, plunging the area into darkness at a critical moment.

Come ON, Winson, get REAL. Just label the socket "LIGHTING ONLY"

The socket will be on top, or tucked underneath a kitchen cabinet. Would anyone (in their right mind) use that to plug in their engine hoist when there are a whole galaxy of shiny spare and available 13A sockets gleaming on the tiled kitchen walls.

An earth fault on an RCD-protected board will have the same, maybe more wide ranging effect.
How do you plan to guard about that eventuality???

 

[Taylortwocities]

I did say it was not forbidden. I also said it was because the legislators had not realised anyone would be so stupid to do it.

Yes, the Laws according to Winston are not the same as the "legislators".

So pick and mix the laws you want. Got many parking tickets recently?

 

[winston1]

Come ON, Winson, get REAL. Just label the socket "LIGHTING ONLY"

The socket will be on top, or tucked underneath a kitchen cabinet. Would anyone (in their right mind) use that to plug in their engine hoist when there are a whole galaxy of shiny spare and available 13A sockets gleaming on the tiled kitchen walls.

An earth fault on an RCD-protected board will have the same, maybe more wide ranging effect.
How do you plan to guard about that eventuality???

Don't be stupid, no one uses an engine hoist in the kitchen. They may of course plug in an extension lead if the other sockets are in use and then put a large load on that.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As you say you are not supposed to put 13 amp sockets on a lighting circuit THEN DON'T DO IT. It is actually not forbidden as the legislators have not yet realised anyone would be so stupid to do it.

Winston - there's a moon somewhere which is lacking someone to howl at it - could you go and help it out, please?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I also said it was because the legislators had not realised anyone would be so stupid to do it.

So your position is that the "legislators" don't think that anyone would be so stupid as to do something which they have explicitly said is compliant.

You think, therefore, that the "legislators" realise that they have explicitly said that something stupid to do is compliant.

I really think you should reflect on where the balance of stupidity lies in your analysis.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You didn't start anything. Its been ongoing for too long.

But sadly the only conclusion to be drawn is that the site want him to do it, just like they want him to bang on about electronic transformers not existing.

They have the ability to stop him ever posting stuff like that in the first place, but flatly refuse to use it.

 

[winston1]

While you are about rewire that 13 amp socket to a socket circuit where it should be.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

While you are about rewire that 13 amp socket to a socket circuit where it should be.

How do you know that it shouldn't be on the circuit it is on?

 

[winston1]

How do you know that it shouldn't be on the circuit it is on?

Because he has said it is on a lighting circuit, where it shouldn't be. And don't start telling me the regs allow it. I know, but it is only because the regulators never assumed anyone would ever be so stupid as to put a 13 amp socket on a lighting circuit.

 

[bernardgreen]

Winston

The designation 13 amps refers to the MAXIMUM current rating of the type of plug ( and matching socket ) commonly known as " a 13 amp plug ( or socket ) "

It is possible to put a 2 amp fuse in that type of plug.

There is no stupidity in connecting a socket to a lighting circuit when that socket is intended for use only by a plug fitted with a 2 amp fuse.