Probate for a person that died 16 years ago?

[Ian H]

My mates missus’s dad is ill in hospital. He lives with his elderly brother in their childhood family home.

His own dad died 20years ago and his mum 16years ago. He has just told his daughter that the house is still in his parents name and asked her to sort out the probate.

Where does she begin?

 

[jasonzyx]

His parents' will, if there was one.

 

[Bosswhite]

you can DIY ownership of property without giving a fortune to solicitors, Contact Land Registry, make sure you have a copy of the Death Certificate to hand

 

[JohnD]

depending when the house last changed hands, it might not be on the Land Registry. If not, the old deeds might be in a dusty box in a solicitors office, a cupboard, in the Building Society vault, or lost.

You can look on the Land Registry yourself and order copies of whatever documents are on file. This will be a good start. You don't have to be the owner to buy copies, anybody can do it.

I have dealt with one of these where the solicitor had lost the documents and I had to swear that the boundaries (fences) were correct and had not been moved in xx years. I had to use a solicitor as the documents had been lost, though luckily I had old photocopies. It would be harder without, but you could buy Land Registry documents for all the adjacent properties, which should enable the boundaries to be derived.

Only use the official government site
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry
and not any of the parasitic fraudsters who may trick you into paying them extra.

It is also possible to obtain copies of Grants of Probate for anybody, possibly including copies of the Will, if they were done, and death/wedding/birth certificates

If you don't know the exact date you can request a search to be done

Again, only use the official site
https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

See also
https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance

 

[Ian H]

Thanks, will pass on the info and let you know how she gets on

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It is also possible to obtain copies of Grants of Probate for anybody, possibly including copies of the Will, if they were done,

Isn't the problem that there never was any grant of probate?

He has just told his daughter that the house is still in his parents name and asked her to sort out the probate.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

My mates missus’s dad is ill in hospital. He lives with his elderly brother in their childhood family home.

His own dad died 20years ago and his mum 16years ago. He has just told his daughter that the house is still in his parents name and asked her to sort out the probate.

Where does she begin?

With the Will, if there was one and who is /are the Executor(s). It would involve the Executor working out the net worth of the Estate, from 16 years ago, then submitting it to the Inland Revenue on an IHT form, to see if any tax was due. Copies of the Will and Death Certficate, plus the fee of £220 paid to the Probate Office, where a sworn declaration needs to be made by an Executor, at the local Probate Office, or with a solicitor- then if all is good, Probate will be granted some weeks later.

Once Probate is granted, and Inland Revenue give the OK - the Estate can be distributed in accordance with the terms of the Will, including changing the details of ownership with the Land Registry (£30 I think).

As it should have been done 16 years ago, best to have a free half hour with a solicitor, but other than that - it is all DIY-able. I managed it four years ago..

 

[Ian H]

Her dad has died since I posted the original question so she will be getting a solicitor onto it soon

 

[big-all]

please be careful if you get them to be executor they will want a percentage off the whole estate value including property
when my dad died 60% off the estate was already sorted but any solicitor involved as an executor would still expect there percentage off the whole estate value rather than the percentage they had to do any work over

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

please be careful if you get them to be executor they will want a percentage off the whole estate value including property
when my dad died 60% off the estate was already sorted but any solicitor involved as an executor would still expect there percentage off the whole estate value rather than the percentage they had to do any work over

Yes, they can claim up to 25% of the total value of the Estate and often do without justification. That's why they offer cheap Wills, where they write the Will so they can include themselves as the nominated Executor. They might reduce the cost, if the family mucks in with some of the effort, under their direction, but still hyper expensive. Even more expensive, where a bank is nominated as Executor.

My partner passed away four years ago, having got a cut price Will written up by a solicitor, with two solicitors nominated as Executors, plus myself. The Estate valued at £200K, with over £20K of that in cash. So there was potential for them to claim up to £50K of that in fees. At which point, I began researching what might be involved to get the solicitors to Renounce and what might be involved in sorting things out myself.

I hit numerous blank walls, but eventually found that the Law Society had suggested and recommended just months before, that solicitors should renounce their involvement, if requested to do so by all the beneficiaries in agreement and it seemed there would be capable Executor able to sort things out remaining - me. A letter to that effect from me, plus a High Court fee and I was then made the sole Executor, the solicitors had no choice in view of the fact that had pointed out the LS's recommendation.

Hard and intimidating work for a first timer, having to do it at a really bad time, but I got there in the end. It took a full 12months to complete the work, but the solicitors would likely have taken much longer. All the cash was to be split with her adult grand kids, they would have certainly got nothing had the solicitors been involved and got their fees.

 

[JohnD]

I believe that in this case, the solicitor is not the Executor (who can put their hand in the bag and take whatever they feel like), but employed or engaged by the person acting as Executor, who can cancel the engagement if not satisfied and get someone else.

IMO there is a lot to be said for doing whatever you can, yourself.

Most of it is easy for a person who has worked in business, though this case is out of the ordinary.

I can write a letter myself in five minutes, or fill in an official form, no need to pay someone else £50 to write it.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Most of it is easy for a person who has worked in business, though this case is out of the ordinary.

Yes, very out of the ordinary and the exact details of the problem remain very unclear.

I would not call the work particularly easy for a first timer faced with it, maybe easier with practice - I would not be quite so intimidated by it all a second time.

 

[JohnD]

By "most of the work" I mean, for example, buying multiple copies of the death certificate, and send it with a standard letter to all the banks, utilities, building societies, credit card companies, other businesses that might had had an account, crematoria, HMRC, Council Tax office, informing them and requesting a statement. Keeping a record and total of all balances.

Notifying beneficiaries

Opening an executor's bank account and paying into it any cash, cheques, proceeds of sale, and paying out any expenses, and keeping an itemised record of what they all were.

paying amounts due, and keeping an itemised record

taking an inventory of possessions, especially any valuables, before friends and family disappear any of them

getting estimate of assets including house to see if IHT is likely to be due. Getting valuations if they are.

Drafting IHT and Income Tax forms if necessary

That's mostly just writing letters; and drafting the forms will tell you if there are any gaps that you don't know how to answer.

If a solicitor or other professional does all of that, they will expect to be handsomely rewarded, and will probably charge you at a rate reflecting a Partner's charge-out rate, even if the work is actually done by a junior clerk on minimum wage.