Quick check on part P compliance

[Taylortwocities]

Do not confuse BS7671 with Building Regulations Part P.

Part P has no concept of zones. It refers to locations.

Rooms with bath or shower = special location = notification

it does not matter if the room size is 20 metres by 20 metres by 20 metres high.

If you put a light in the ceiling its notifiable.

 

[BS3036]

As I understand it, and BAS' argument (and of course IANAL)...

Part P is (as it says in its own text) a recommendation. The building regulations themselves are law, and the document linked to above (which you do need to look at to understand the argument) states very clearly that only within the zones are you required to notify by law.

The law wins above the guidance document - by definition, really.

 

[oharaf]

If I may add my penith??

I am with Gary on this one.

The BathROOM is the SPECIAL LOCATION, the zones are defined areas with limitations imposed on them.

Therefore, as the regs say work in a SPECIAL LOCATION is notafiable not just the work in the special location within the prescribed zones!!!

MODUS TOLENS or is it PONENS? can't remeber will check me latin tomorrow

 

[Taylortwocities]

Oharaf, I'm with you too,

I'm going to have a review of that, certainly it is not the intention or the spirit of Part P, and BAS and co stuffing well know it.

Even so, this part of the installation is definately notifiable

installation of recessed ceiling lights, not above the bath but will be above the sink and centre of the bathroom at a height of 2.4 metres (basically a T shape of 5 spotlights)

Is notifiable - anyhere in thhouse - if ELV and not a CE Marked Set.

(Prescott only knows why they just picked out ELV but did not mention GU10s etc)

 

[BS3036]

Therefore, as the regs say work in a SPECIAL LOCATION is notafiable not just the work in the special location within the prescribed zones!!!

If, by the 'regs', you mean BS7671, then there is no mention at all of notification.

Two conflicting documents mention the requirement for notification.

One is the 'Building Regulations 2000' which is law and came into force on 1st January 2001.

This states:

DESCRIPTIONS OF WORK WHERE NO BUILDING NOTICE OR DEPOSIT OF FULL PLANS REQUIRED
1.
...
2. Work which—
(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,
...

and then...

4. For the purposes of this Schedule—
...
“special location” means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, sixteenth edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating amendments 1 and 2.

whereas Guidance Document Part P says:

Work than need not be notified to building control bodies:

Work that is not in a Special Location, and...

Note d: In large bathrooms, the location containing a bath or shower is defined by the walls of the bathroom.

So, for certain additions, the law says we do not have to notify, but the guidance says we do. Should the citizen obey the law or the guidance?


Oh, and by the way, I'm not sure I'm comfortable being called '& co'.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If you're installing to BS7671:2008 then zone 3 doesn't exist in a bathroom, only zones 1 and 2.

But the Building Regulations still refer to the Zones defined in BS 7671:2001 - the law has not been changed.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS, are you tring to say that you do not have to notify electrical work in a bathroom if the work is 'outside zones'.?

I dont see reference to zones in Part P document. It just says room containing a bath or shower...." etc

AD P does not define the law.

This is not a question of interpretation of something vaguely worded - read the actual Building Regulations and you will see that the legal definition of "special location" is crystal clear, precise and unambiguous - there is not a shred of doubt that it only encompasses Zones 1, 2, & 3.

Even though the BS 7671:2008 has changed the definitions of Zones, until the law is amended, the meaning of "special location" in the Building Regulations will remain the Zones defined in BS 7671:2001 Amd 1 & 2.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

For that reason I would always go along the lines of a special location being a location containing a bath or shower basin and not an zoned area inside of a location containing a bath or shower basin.

Then you will be going along with something other than what the law says.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do not confuse BS7671 with Building Regulations Part P.

Part P has no concept of zones. It refers to locations.

Rooms with bath or shower = special location = notification

it does not matter if the room size is 20 metres by 20 metres by 20 metres high.

If you put a light in the ceiling its notifiable.

TTC, you are wrong.

I'm sorry, but you are flat plain and completely wrong - please read The Building Regulations.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If I may add my penith??

I am with Gary on this one.

The BathROOM is the SPECIAL LOCATION, the zones are defined areas with limitations imposed on them.

Therefore, as the regs say work in a SPECIAL LOCATION is notafiable not just the work in the special location within the prescribed zones!!!

MODUS TOLENS or is it PONENS? can't remeber will check me latin tomorrow

Have you actually read The Building Regulations?

The definition of "special location" in The Building Regulations is not "a room with a bath or shower in it", it is
a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath,
a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, sixteenth
edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards
Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating amendments 1 and 2.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Oharaf, I'm with you too,

I'm going to have a review of that, certainly it is not the intention or the spirit of Part P, and BAS and co stuffing well know it.

I wouldn't begin to try and divine what the intentions were of the people who wrote Part P of The Building Regulations.

All I know is that it's generally a bad idea to ignore what laws actually say because you think you know best what the intentions were of the people who worded them.

It really doesn't matter how uncomfortable you find the fact that The Building Regulations don't say what you think they should - the fact is they say what they say......

 

[Softus]

Part P is (as it says in its own text) a recommendation. The building regulations themselves are law...

There must be an explanation for you writing this complete gibberish - could you enlighten everyone?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Good morning.

So, what you are saying is, for bathrooms, until the wording of the legislation is brought up to date:
To be legal ref Part P, one would have to notify if the work falls within the zones as defined in 16th edition
but
in order to do work under BS7671 and produce a Wiring Certificate the work itself would have to comply with 17th???

Blimey

Unless the work also falls within one of the other notifiable work activities (eg ELV downlights)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Good morning.

So, what you are saying is, for bathrooms, until the wording of the legislation is brought up to date:
To be legal ref Part P, one would have to notify if the work falls within the zones as defined in 16th edition
but
in order to do work under BS7671 and produce a Wiring Certificate the work itself would have to comply with 17th???

Blimey

I really don't see why that's such a problem.

You do the work in accordance with the 17th and certify it accordingly.

If the work falls within the Zones defined by the 16th you notify it.

 

[Spark123]

Is "Outside Zones" a zone?