Regs question

[Taylortwocities]

Dylan, there's no helping you, no matter what you are advised you are going to do it your own way. But I will make a couple of observations before I leave you to dig your own hole.

So will be going under the floor to have a look.

Looking doesn't do it. As above, you need to TEST the existing circuit to see if it is complete and compliant. As a minimum carry out Insulation Resistance test and continuity testing.

I am putting down a new floor so I need to get the electrics done before it goes down.

I hope you will make it easy to get it up again. Unless you do the works properly.

provided what I am doing is legal, that’s ok with me

How will you know it's "legal". How will you know it is safe?

unless he’s a real cowboy and has done radials or something weird.

Radials are not weird, they are a standard circuit, used in most countries and increasingly being installed in the UK in preference to ring final circuits.

something which didn’t even have testing for about 80 years. I mean, there were barely regs until the modern day.

Are you kidding?

Really, please, get your dad involved. He WILL have done testing, he knows how to test, even if he doesn't have a copy of the recent regs, or calibrated test equipment. Certainly he will know a heap more than you do.

[/end of grumble]

 

[EFLImpudence]

unless he’s a real cowboy and has done radials or something weird.

Nonsense.

Apart from sockets in Britain (and possibly other former British places) every circuit you will have ever come across will be a radial.

It seems to me that you don't really know what to ask, let alone take notice of the answers.

 

[Dylan123]

Dylan, there's no helping you, no matter what you are advised you are going to do it your own way. But I will make a couple of observations before I leave you to dig your own hole.

Looking doesn't do it. As above, you need to TEST the existing circuit to see if it is complete and compliant. As a minimum carry out Insulation Resistance test and continuity testing.

I hope you will make it easy to get it up again. Unless you do the works properly.

How will you know it's "legal". How will you know it is safe?

Radials are not weird, they are a standard circuit, used in most countries and increasingly being installed in the UK in preference to ring final circuits.

Are you kidding?
View attachment 239284

Really, please, get your dad involved. He WILL have done testing, he knows how to test, even if he doesn't have a copy of the recent regs, or calibrated test equipment. Certainly he will know a heap more than you do.

[/end of grumble]

I’ve never made any suggestions I would be attempting this without supervision (being told what to do). That’s why I’m here on a DIY forum, asking questions.

it’s also why I clearly stated above several times that I didn’t know what I was doing, that my dad would be doing it.

I’ll concede this one. Clearly adding sockets takes a masters degree, it’s a shame I got mine in economics and didn’t go for advanced socket installation

 

[Dylan123]

Nonsense.

Apart from sockets in Britain (and possibly other former British places) every circuit you will have ever come across will be a radial.

It seems to me that you don't really know what to ask, let alone take notice of the answers.

the question was about building regs.

It wasn’t “critique my understanding of electrical installation”

 

[securespark]

The first edition of the electrical regulations were published in 1882.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

the problem is, sparks won’t sign off your work and want the whole job which is going to cost me £500 for something which didn’t even have testing for about 80 years. I mean, there were barely regs until the modern day.

That is untrue, the first wiring regulations (First Edition) appeared in 1882, though then known as a Standard and have been regularly updated since then.

 

[AndyPRK]

When was the mega 500v tester first sold ?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

When was the mega 500v tester first sold ?

Sometime between 1880 and 1920, it was developed and sold.

 

[JohnD]

Clearly adding sockets takes a masters degree, it’s a shame I got mine in economics and didn’t go for advanced socket installation

And yet you're a failed electrician's assistant.

 

[flameport]

Testing has been in the Wiring Regulations since the 1st edition.

1st edition, 1882. Tests required using special apparatus.

2nd edition, 1888. Now specifies the maximum leakage current permitted.

3rd edition, 1897. Tests before current is switched on, insulation resistance in megohms, two separate tests 15 days apart and records of tests to be kept.

 

[markyd1]

any addition to a circuit needs a minor works cert....

 

[Dylan123]

And yet you're a failed electrician's assistant.

My dad talked me out of doing it.

I have a lot of respect for anyone who knows their stuff in this industry, it’s highly complex and technical work.

I came on here to ask a question. It’s a DIY forum. People will come here, most of which won’t know their stuff, and seek help.

So, considering I have clearly grievously upset some people here:

- Yes some forms of wiring regs existed so I was incorrect to say that. What might be better is to say that modern regs are much more onerous and lots of work went on without the regulation we have today.

In addition:

- if you think it’s a job for a pro, say so.

The majority of people I deal with in my job are entirely ignorant, and I too, feel a need to flex my ego and prove to them why what “they think” about my specialist knowledge is wrong.

Its much more rewarding and telling of character to explain this in a mature way, instead of descending into a bun fight of essentially being rude and confrontational.

this is magnified as this is actually supposed to be a place for people to seek help.

 

[Dylan123]

I’m still actually seeking an answer to my question.


I seem to have answers suggesting it needs a test certificate, someone saying it can be done DIY, a lot of it conflicts.

I’ll just speak to my dad and my spark, this has been about as useful as a chocolate tea pot.

anyway, you all know a lot more than I do. Well done. Regards, failed electricians mate

 

[SimonH2]

I seem to have answers suggesting it needs a test certificate, someone saying it can be done DIY, a lot of it conflicts.

Actually no conflict there. There are three aspects to consider :

1) can you DIY ?
Yes, if you have the skills, knowledge, and tools to do so safely. Unlike some professions that are a closed shop (e.g. you can't legally practice as a doctor without being a member of the GMC), there is no restriction on who can do electrical work other than the requirements for skills and knowledge.
In a commercial setting it gets a little more complicated as other laws (Health & Safety at Work, Electricity at Work) come into play. But in reality that doesn't do much more than formalizing the "competent" requirement and needing those in charge of tge site to ensure that those doing the works are competent (with record keeping).

2) do you need a certificate ?
According to BS7671 you need a certificate for all electrical works - which might just be a Minor Works Certificate. But once again, anyone can produce this provided they are competent - it does not have to be someone who's a scam member.

3) do I have to "tell the authorities" ?
For many work, not at all - which is a surprise to many. As previously mentioned, in Engkand there are only 3 types of electrical works that are notifiable : replacing a CU, adding a new circuit, works within the zones of a bathroom.
And this is where the scams have the advantage - their members can typically notify via an online system for peanuts. If not using a scam members, the person ordering the work needs to go down the LABC notification route - which can cost fees into hundreds of £, and will normally require a certificate from someone competent to issue it. How does the building inspector tell if you are competent ? The easy route is to look for membership of a scam which covers their backside.

Unfortunately the scams continue with a policy of disinformation designed to give people the impression that they have a closed shop and non-members can't do a safe or legal job - and their members always will. It's well known in the industry that neither is true

And in 2005 when the notification requirements were added to the building regs, a lot of charlatans (including the scams) were quick to muddy the waters to scare people into using their services instead of DIY.

PS, notice I've not mentioned Part P ? That's because it's irrelevant and only codifies tgat works shoukd be safe. If you see someone claiming anything like "Part P registered" then you can take that as a sign that they are a charlatan, or just plain ignorant if the regulations

Does that clarify things for you ?

 

[Dylan123]

Actually no conflict there. There are three aspects to consider :

1) can you DIY ?
Yes, if you have the skills, knowledge, and tools to do so safely. Unlike some professions that are a closed shop (e.g. you can't legally practice as a doctor without being a member of the GMC), there is no restriction on who can do electrical work other than the requirements for skills and knowledge.
In a commercial setting it gets a little more complicated as other laws (Health & Safety at Work, Electricity at Work) come into play. But in reality that doesn't do much more than formalizing the "competent" requirement and needing those in charge of tge site to ensure that those doing the works are competent (with record keeping).

2) do you need a certificate ?
According to BS7671 you need a certificate for all electrical works - which might just be a Minor Works Certificate. But once again, anyone can produce this provided they are competent - it does not have to be someone who's a scam member.

3) do I have to "tell the authorities" ?
For many work, not at all - which is a surprise to many. As previously mentioned, in Engkand there are only 3 types of electrical works that are notifiable : replacing a CU, adding a new circuit, works within the zones of a bathroom.
And this is where the scams have the advantage - their members can typically notify via an online system for peanuts. If not using a scam members, the person ordering the work needs to go down the LABC notification route - which can cost fees into hundreds of £, and will normally require a certificate from someone competent to issue it. How does the building inspector tell if you are competent ? The easy route is to look for membership of a scam which covers their backside.

Unfortunately the scams continue with a policy of disinformation designed to give people the impression that they have a closed shop and non-members can't do a safe or legal job - and their members always will. It's well known in the industry that neither is true

And in 2005 when the notification requirements were added to the building regs, a lot of charlatans (including the scams) were quick to muddy the waters to scare people into using their services instead of DIY.

PS, notice I've not mentioned Part P ? That's because it's irrelevant and only codifies tgat works shoukd be safe. If you see someone claiming anything like "Part P registered" then you can take that as a sign that they are a charlatan, or just plain ignorant if the regulations

Does that clarify things for you ?

awesome, thanks.

That’s exactly what I was looking for.

to be fair I asked my dad about the myriad of testing and he kind of shrugged and said “adding sockets? I guess ideally, but it’s not much of a job”

my own profession has various things which can only be done by a qualified individual. Tons of stuff I do for clients (investment advice) they could probably research and do solo. However, they might miss things that after 20 years of experience I could see. So I am sure this is the same - yes, it’s not complex but it COULD go very wrong if you aren’t careful, so the truth is somewhere between the two poles.


as for the certificate - if you just need to be competent, then what, my father can just knock one up on the PC?

another note, when I learned it, I thought it was BS3036. I presume that’s changed?