Replacing Halogen bulbs with LEDs - best way of doing it?

It is vastly more likely that someone will plug one 13 amp load in your socket on a lighting circuit than putting 65 amps worth of load on a ring final.

13 amp sockets were never designed for lighting circuits so put them there.
 
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It is vastly more likely that someone will plug one 13 amp load in your socket on a lighting circuit than putting 65 amps worth of load on a ring final.
Well, for a start, "so what?". As I said, nothing will come to any harm if a 13A load is plugged into a 6A lighting circuit - just a little 'inconvenience'. Also, don't forget that we usually use artificially low-rated OPDs on lighting circuits. If, as is commonly the case, the circuit is wired in 1.5mm² Method C, it could have a 16A OPD (or, electrically-speaking, even though the the regs don't allow it, a 20A one).

As for my comment, whilst 65A is probably a bit OTT, I think that the risk of a large load being plugged into a 13A socket on a lighting circuit is very much over-stated/over-estimated. When a 13A socket is used in that way, it is nearly always for a dedicated permanent small load (often a wallwart), often in a very inaccessible place (like roofspace or the back of a cupboard), and is quite often labelled appropriately. Although obviously not impossible, it's fairly unlikely that anyone will plug their fan heater, vacuum cleaner or whatever into it.

Kind Regards, John
 
Well it is up to you but I would never do it. It is obviously poor practice.

I came across it once in a domestic garage. The (new) owner had plugged a heavy load into it and taken out the lights. I got called to find out why the lights didn't work. Having found the problem I disconnected the socket and told him to get it rewired on to the correct circuit.
 
Well it is up to you but I would never do it.
Fair enough - but I would do it (and have done it) in the sort of situations I described.

I think it comes down to common sense. If it's a single socket in, say, the roof space or a cupboard, with a wallwart plugged in (maybe even secured with tape or a cable tie) and appropriately labelled, I would be quite comfortable. However, I obviously would not wire a string of 13A sockets in a living room or kitchen to a lighting circuit, even if it were a 16A one!

It is obviously poor practice.
I don't think there is anything obvious about it. It's a matter of personal opinion and, as above, that opinion will depend on the circumstances.

It seems to be increasingly fashionable to put several double 13A sockets on a 20A radial circuit.

Kind Regards, John
 
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First be careful with the words used for power supplies, and what lamps can be powered from what, I have found many LED lamps marked 50 Hz so they are not designed to run on a DC supply, also in theory a driver is a current regulated device, in practice many voltage regulated devices are called drivers, simple transformers give out 50 Hz but electronic transformers likely give out AC power in the megahertz range which limits amount of cable that can be used, also as you seem to realise some, although not all, electronic transformers have a minimum output.

As to 13A socket on lighting this is dependent on where used, in the loft powering the TV signal booster with a notice on it TV signal booster only, it is not really a problem, we were allowed to use non RCD protected sockets when clearly marked for a single piece of equipment like a freezer, so why not use one to supply lights if clearly marked? Well in real terms it is down to what happens when some one puts some thing into the socket which is over the rating.

So if one fits a FCU with a 1A fuse then you have a 13A socket with a wallmart plugged in, should some one plug a kettle in, then the 1A fuse will rupture and no real harm done, however with a 3A fuse then one could find the MCB trips first, and of course with no FCU the MCB will trip. So it is down to a risk assessment, if you loose that circuit what would it mean? So I will look at my house, if the lighting MCB trips, living room OK street light gives enough light, stairs OK the emergency light comes on, rooms to back of the house could be very dark and the way my wife leaves things around yes there is a danger of tripping, garage OK emergency light comes on, loft a problem, but it is floored and the stairs emergency light will show way to exit. So in my house not really too much of a problem, assessing the risk on the boarder line, but as long as marked up, should not be a problem.

However if I remove those emergency lights, then it tips the balance and no risk too high. Had my lights been split up and down stairs then again situation changes, and also if my stairs were not in the centre of house where there is no light from street lights, that would also change the risk. OK theory no 13A socket on a lighting supply, however in practice if you do a risk assessment and you realise no real problem, then use some common sense. However not so sure as an electrician if one can use common sense?

In mothers house we had a door bell powered from a transformer, I swapped the door bell for one needing 12 volt DC or batteries, the social services high lighted a problem when mothers door bell did not work due to flat batteries, so sent an electrician to swap the 8 volt AC transformer for a 12 volt DC power supply, it seemed a simple job. The electrician came and fitted the new transformer, tried door bell and it did not work, investigated and 8 volt AC transformer had been replaced with a 12 volt AC transformer. I highlighted problem, so off the electrician went to find a DC power supply, however only one at his suppliers was one which plugged into a socket, so he fitted a 13A socket to original door bell supply and plugged in the door bell. Now everything worked.

However my mother soon realised there was now a socket under the stairs, so in went the 4 way adapter and now she plugged in the cleaner into that socket, after she put a extension lead into a bucket of water as she thought it was on fire as it had a red neon, I went around with a RCD tester to check why it did not trip the power, I found the new socket under the stairs would not trip when tested with the RCD tester, so I looked for paperwork which I could not find, phoned council asking for paperwork, as they were the people ordering the work, paperwork likely went to them, now I think you can see where this is going, the new socket was not RCD protected, had he simply stuck a label on the socket saying door bell transformer only he could have got away with it. But now also highlighted he had not issued a minor works certificate, so he got into a lot of trouble as not only no RCD or label but also no paperwork except for the bill. So for an electrician to fit a 13A socket to a lighting circuit is rather foolish as he is likely to get into a lot of trouble for doing it. For the house owner to do same, as long as he/she has assessed the risks, and of course today it will need RCD protection then not such an issue.

In real terms having a socket on the lights is no more dangerous than having the lights on same RCD as sockets.
 
HOW DARE YOU TELL PEOPLE TO IGNORE ME OR ANYONE ELSE.
Because you keep on writing rubbish which people should ignore.

I've told you before - stop writing that rubbish and there will be no need to tell people to ignore you.


13 amp sockets should not be put on lighting circuits. Lighting circuits cannot handle 13 amps and someone someday will try to use those sockets with a 13 amp load.
Shut up.
 
I'm going to rise to it ...13amp sockets on a lighting circuit ...these are on top of the kitchen top cupboards -extra high ones... about 2 inches from the ceiling and not visible unless you are on a ladder. They were installed as part of a whole kitchen rewire. There are multiple 13amp sockets above the kitchen counter -not on the lighting circuit and at a useful height (and sockets behind every appliance with an isolation switch at counter height) - the likelihood of someone choosing to use these sockets for anything but lighting is minimal...
I do have a double socket on a lighting circuit elsewhere - in the under stairs cupboard...put in by a previous owner - I assume it was 'mr bodge-it' who was responsible for several dodgy electrical things....unearthed metal socket being one - a light wired with a switched neutral etc. I discovered it was on the lighting circuit when I tried to use a hoover in it and it tripped the RCD.... the only thing I ever use it for is a 12v dehumidifier...

Back to my problem - I am going to try and get a picture of the set up later today (like I said I need a ladder etc) - pretty sure (from memory) the plugs aren't wallwarts - the individual ones had those . These multipack ones with transformers have standard 3 pin plugs but will double check and get back...
Actually thinking about it more I think the sockets are fixed to the top of the cupboards - rather than in the wall - so I could just take them off all together - it was done 8yrs or so ago and it was discussed with the electricians and kitchen fitters. I think the point was the most likely thing needing to be replaced would be the transformer - so make them accessible and easy to change.
 
I'm going to rise to it ...13amp sockets on a lighting circuit ...these are on top of the kitchen top cupboards -extra high ones... about 2 inches from the ceiling and not visible unless you are on a ladder. They were installed as part of a whole kitchen rewire. There are multiple 13amp sockets above the kitchen counter -not on the lighting circuit and at a useful height (and sockets behind every appliance with an isolation switch at counter height) - the likelihood of someone choosing to use these sockets for anything but lighting is minimal....
Indeed - and that's the very sort of situation in which I am personally comfortable with having such sockets on a lighting circuit - and particularly if they are there for a dedicated 'permanent' purpose and, even more particularly, if 'just to be sure', they are 'labelled' appropriately - just in case someone climbs a stepladder with their kettle, vacuum cleaner or welder in their hand!

Kind Regards, John
 
Right a couple of photos - not the best -it is tricky to get up there -had to stand on the kitchen worktop as ladder wouldn't go close enough (ad realised it is quite dirty up there :oops: ). There is more spare cable/wires than I remember. ...I knew there was enough left to put them both sets on the same transformer if I wanted to...
It is a standard (13 amp) socket and plug - socket is a surface mounted one on top of the cupboard - I could remove it and wire it straight in but inclined to leave it -it will be hard enough fiddling around up there. Better to disconnect the pucks and do as much as I can on the ground - just plug the new one driver in and reconnect the pucks... and I should be able to move it out the way for cleaning easier...(seeing as I plan on cleaning up there more often now ...honest ;))

Currently a white cable feeds into the transformer and the wires for the 3 pucks feed out...So if I can fit three of the light cables into one connector on the driver (and that is completely ok to do?) -that will be the best way to go - 2 new drivers and no fussing around with connectors etc...and will get rid of some of the excess cable now - it isn't needed and could always be replaced if nec -it was me future proofing more than anything ...

Will get onto that asap ...
Thanks for all the constructive help! (y)
 

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However my mother soon realised there was now a socket under the stairs, so in went the 4 way adapter and now she plugged in the cleaner into that socket,

So there you have it. 13 amp sockets should NOT be put on lighting circuits. Someone someday will overload it.
 
Because you keep on writing rubbish which people should ignore.

I've told you before - stop writing that rubbish and there will be no need to tell people to ignore you.



Shut up.

You may have a difference of opinion but that DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT to tell people to ignore those you disagree with.
 
It's not really down to ' opinion'; is there a regulation which states it should not be done?

If not, why do think that is?
 

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