Replacing Halogen bulbs with LEDs - best way of doing it?

[JohnW2]

As well as regulations we are expected to use common sence.

As you will recall, that's precisely what I said about this matter, but it seems that when I apply common sense, I come to a different conclusion from the one that you appear to come to when you apply common sense.

In other words, even 'common sense' seems to be a matter of opinion.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

OK I have looked in the old BS 7671:2008 and only reference I can find is.

559.6.1.1 Connection to the fixed wiring
At each fixed lighting point one of the following shall be used:
(i) A ceiling rose to BS 67
(ii) A luminaire supporting coupler to BS 6972 or BS 7001
(iii) A batten lampholder or a pendant set to BS EN 60598
(iv) A luminaire to BS EN 60598
(v) A suitable socket-outlet to BS 1363-2, BS 546 or BS EN 60309-2
(vi) A plug-in lighting distribution unit to BS 5733
(vii) A Connection unit to BS 1363-4
(viii) Appropriate terminals enclosed in a box complying with the relevant part of BS EN 60670 series or BS 4662
(ix) A device for connecting a luminaire (DCL) outlet according to IEC 61995-1.
Note: In suspended ceilings one plug-in lighting distribution unit may be used for a number of luminaires.

Which seems to say you can use a socket to BS 1363 which is a 13A socket, so question is where does it say you can't use a 13A socket, as I can only find where it says you can?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You may have a difference of opinion but that DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT to tell people to ignore those you disagree with.

It does when those other opinions are in fact nonsense which should be ignored.

Stop writing nonsense and there will be no need to tell people to ignore you.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Which seems to say you can use a socket to BS 1363 which is a 13A socket, so question is where does it say you can't use a 13A socket, as I can only find where it says you can?

I'd forgotten about that.

So - that should now be an end to Winston's nonsense - he can't suggest even an inference that sockets shouldn't be on lighting circuits.

So if he ever tires it again, hopefully the Mods will either delete it or move it to a 'howling at the moon' topic in the bowels of GD.

 

[winston1]

It does when those other opinions are in fact nonsense which should be ignored.

Stop writing nonsense and there will be no need to tell people to ignore you.

I never write nonsense. Once again you have a difference of opinion and you have no right to tell people to ignore those you have a difference of opinion with.

 

[winston1]

I'd forgotten about that.

So - that should now be an end to Winston's nonsense - he can't suggest even an inference that sockets shouldn't be on lighting circuits.

So if he ever tires it again, hopefully the Mods will either delete it or move it to a 'howling at the moon' topic in the bowels of GD.

But lets face it common sense says they should not be. It wouldn't be the first time the regs got it wrong (that's why they are amended regularly) and it won't be the last.

 

[JohnW2]

I'd forgotten about that.

So had I ... and not only does it explicitly allow BS1363 sockets. but it even explicitly allows BS EN 60309-2 ones! ... so if anyone has a problem with "13A" sockets on such a circuit, .... !!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I never write nonsense.

Apparently you do.

559.6.1.1 (v) makes that unequivocally clear.

Once again you have a difference of opinion and you have no right to tell people to ignore those you have a difference of opinion with.

Difference of opinion?

You wrote this:

You mean the electrician put 13 amp sockets on a lighting circuit? He was an idiot. Find another electrician.

You advised a person seeking advice here that his electrician was an idiot and that he should find another one when what his electrician had done was explicitly allowed by the Wiring Regulations.

Damned right I will tell people to ignore you.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Forgotten or never noticed - me, too.



We in fact have a regulation stating it IS allowed, so the argument now is that the regulation is wrong.

Oh well. It does prove one thing, though.

But lets face it common sense says they should not be. It wouldn't be the first time the regs got it wrong (that's why they are amended regularly) and it won't be the last.

Your "common sense" would seem to be, in fact, unique.

Did you mean to write:

Ooops I hadn't seen that either, apologies, I stand corrected.

 

[JohnW2]

Your "common sense" would seem to be, in fact, unique.

Indeed. As I wrote to him, "even common sense appears to be a matter of opinion" - and I suppose he has a right to have (and voice) any opinion on the matter that he chooses, provided that he does not say, or give the impression, that he is staing some absolute truth.

As I keep saying, in terms of the risk of 'overloading the circuit' (which is what appears to concern him, and which, in itself, is no catastrophe anyway, provided that the cable is adequately protected), I don't see that having one (or more) 13A sockets on a "6A circuit" is any 'worse' that having multiple double 13A sockets on a "20A" radial circuit.

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

As well as regulations we are expected to use common sence.

Yes, that well known regulation:

134.1.1 Good workmanship by competent persons who are expected to use common sense or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation.

I don't see that having one (or more) 13A sockets on a "6A circuit" is any 'worse' that having multiple double 13A sockets on a "20A" radial circuit.

Especially as regulations explicitly allow these situations.

So there you have it. 13 amp sockets should NOT be put on lighting circuits. Someone someday will overload it.

13A sockets should NOT be put on 20A circuits. Someday someone will overload it (sic).

 

[winston1]

We in fact have a regulation stating it IS allowed, so the argument now is that the regulation is wrong.

Well, I believe it is wrong. Won't be the first time they got a regulation wrong either.

 

[JohnW2]

Well, I believe it is wrong. Won't be the first time they got a regulation wrong either.

We all have personal opinions about various regulations, and many of us believe that at least some are 'not ideal' (if not plain 'wrong') - so there is no problem in your having your owen opinion about the reg under discussion. However, as has been said, although you are free to make your opinion known, you really should not say that a reg-compliant practice is unacceptable, or that an electrician who complies with it is an "idiot" who should be replaced, even if your personal opinion is that the regulation is 'wrong'.

Do you also believe that the regulations which allow two or more 13A outlets on a 20A circuit, or those which allow three or more 13A outlets on a 32A circuit, are also wrong?

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

We all have personal opinions about various regulations, and many of us believe that at least some are 'not ideal' (if not plain 'wrong') - so there is no problem in your having your owen opinion about the reg under discussion. However, as has been said, although you are free to make your opinion known, you really should not say that a reg-compliant practice is unacceptable, or that an electrician who complies with it is an "idiot" who should be replaced, even if your personal opinion is that the regulation is 'wrong'.

Do you also believe that the regulations which allow two or more 13A outlets on a 20A circuit, or those which allow three or more 13A outlets on a 32A circuit, are also wrong?

Kind Regards, John

I was not aware that the regs allowed it when I gave that opinion. It just seems so incredulous that it is allowed.

Several 13 amp sockets on a 20 amp circuit is OK. It's about diversity. But you can't apply diversity to a single sockrt.

 

[333rocky333]

I was not aware that the regs allowed it when I gave that opinion. It just seems so incredulous that it is allowed.

Several 13 amp sockets on a 20 amp circuit is OK. It's about diversity. But you can't apply diversity to a single sockrt.

Not forgetting the amount of times you have slagged off people for using an FCU on lighting circuits
https://www.diynot.com/diy/search/14047338/?q=lighting+fcu&o=relevance&c[user][0]=134775