Replacing Halogen bulbs with LEDs - best way of doing it?

[Lusi83]

These are under cupboard /counter kitchen 'puck' lights from IKEA (Grundtal) that use 10w halogen G4 bulbs.
I have 6 pucks - split into 2 lots of 3.
Each lot of 3 is wired directly into one transformer (from ikea) - they have individual connectors for each wire that sits on top of the cupboard and is plugged directly into a 3 pin socket that is connected to a light circuit controlled by a wall switch.
Each transformer is capable of having 6 lights connected but the cooker hood is in the middle of them - it is a concealed hood -so I could connect all lights into one transformer but it was wired like this in case I ever wanted to change to a 'display' hood.
I want to change to LED bulbs - replacing the lights would be a pain(cos of the wiring running behind the cupboards).
For now I will leave one halogen bulb and use the existing transformers -but I know I will have to change them to LED drivers (they have a minimum wattage) .
So what is the best way of doing it?
I am thinking use the existing cable from the socket to transformer to connect the driver - just cut it off and wire it in - but what about the out feed? I think I need to run a cable from the driver to some kind of connector to connect the individual lights wires. I know I need them to connect them so that if a bulb blows the others still work - so individually (I know there is a proper term - in parallel not series? Or vice a versa ) -I think that means I could attach all 3 together to one connector? So driver feed in one connector , all three wires in the same out connector (a junction box thing). Or I could for now use just one driver for all 6 lights
I need a constant voltage driver (I think) with no minimum wattage.
I don't want to spend a fortune doing it ... so what kind of connector would be best - or can you get a driver that allows multiple lights (like the IKEA one I have) ? After multiple internet searches I am now just confused! I do know I am lucky that the transformers are so easy to get to!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If someone called Winston1 turns up, bleating about the word "transformer", just ignore him.

I am thinking use the existing cable from the socket to transformer to connect the driver - just cut it off and wire it in

Not sure what that means - cut what off?

I need a constant voltage driver (I think) with no minimum wattage.

Probably - LED replacement G4s will be designed to work with a 12V supply.

so what kind of connector would be best

What is the one used by the Ikea lights? Is it proprietary, or one where you could buy connectors that match? But the easiest way would be to just cut the connectors off and use choc-block in a small enclosure, or a small junction box (e.g. Debox), to take the bare wires.

 

[aptsys]

What's the minimum load on your existing transformer? It might be that you can just replace the lamps for LED versions. More info required - photos would be good

 

[FrodoOne]

These are under cupboard /counter kitchen 'puck' lights from IKEA (Grundtal) that use 10w halogen G4 bulbs.
I have 6 pucks - split into 2 lots of 3.
Each lot of 3 is wired directly into one transformer (from ikea) - they have individual connectors for each wire that sits on top of the cupboard and is plugged directly into a 3 pin socket that is connected to a light circuit controlled by a wall switch.
Each transformer is capable of having 6 lights connected but the cooker hood is in the middle of them - it is a concealed hood -so I could connect all lights into one transformer but it was wired like this in case I ever wanted to change to a 'display' hood.
I want to change to LED bulbs - replacing the lights would be a pain(cos of the wiring running behind the cupboards).
For now I will leave one halogen bulb and use the existing transformers -but I know I will have to change them to LED drivers (they have a minimum wattage) .
So what is the best way of doing it?
I am thinking use the existing cable from the socket to transformer to connect the driver - just cut it off and wire it in - but what about the out feed? I think I need to run a cable from the driver to some kind of connector to connect the individual lights wires. I know I need them to connect them so that if a bulb blows the others still work - so individually (I know there is a proper term - in parallel not series? Or vice a versa ) -I think that means I could attach all 3 together to one connector? So driver feed in one connector , all three wires in the same out connector (a junction box thing). Or I could for now use just one driver for all 6 lights
I need a constant voltage driver (I think) with no minimum wattage.
I don't want to spend a fortune doing it ... so what kind of connector would be best - or can you get a driver that allows multiple lights (like the IKEA one I have) ?

From https://www.manualagent.com/ikea/grundtal-countertop-light-halogen-3x10w/assembly-instruction it is not clear (to me) where any transformer may be located, apart from within each "unit".
However, you say that you do have two separately mounted transformers and "Each lot of 3 is wired directly into one transformer (from ikea) - they have individual connectors for each wire that sits on top of the cupboard and is plugged directly into a 3 pin socket that is connected to a light circuit controlled by a wall switch."

If you use drivers, such as either of these ( http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/led-drivers/7736949/ or http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/led-drivers/7736958/), you could simply cut off/disconnect the existing transformer from the cable to the lamp and and connect this cable to the (DC) output of the driver, since the driver has the required screw connecting terminals. While these drivers are intended to be connected to flat electrical wiring cable, they could be connected via any flat cable since they do not require an earth connection as they are "double insulated".

Depending on the wattage of the LED G4 lamps you use you may need only one of these drivers, if you can arrange for the leads for both sets of lamps to connect to the one driver.

If you intend to first use two G4 Led lamps with one existing (10 W) halogen make sure that you buy lamps that are described as "retrofit" or "Replacement for Halogens". These should work in parallel with one existing halogen. Depending on the total load provided by three LEDs in parallel, they may work with the existing transformer, depending on its minimum load. However, this may be somewhat inefficient - with the transformer using up to 50% more energy than would be used by an appropriate driver.

G4 LEDs are likely to be larger than G4 Halogens. Whatever G4 LEDs that you purchase, make sure that they can physically be fitted into the existing spaces available. Remember that you need to allow for the length of the pins when inserting and removing them.

 

[winston1]

removed

 

[Lusi83]

Sorry for slow reply - had to go out and got held up ...

it is not clear (to me) where any transformer may be located, apart from within each "unit".

They came either as individual lights or in a 3 pack -individual lights had a transformer plug, three pack came with a plug in transformer/connector unit that had terminals to connect 6 lights inside.

Not sure what that means - cut what off?

The transformer has a 3 pin plug - it isn't wired in (DIYer friendly I guess) - so the electricians put 3 pin sockets above the cupboards to plug them into. So I would cut the transformer off the lead with the 3 pin plug and connect the new driver to that lead...
Rubbish diagram to show the layout of one set of lights.

Probably - LED replacement G4s will be designed to work with a 12V supply.

I think the problem is that with the reduced wattage the current transformer will run higher than 12v and burn the LEDs out?

This is the info from back of transformer - it has a minimum of 10W so 3 x 1W LEDs is going to be below that (even 6 would be! -and yes I did clean the ccd sensor on the camera after taking that photo )
I picked up the bulbs today - they are marked as replacement halogens and I have put two in already and it is working but I know it isn't ideal...

If I get one of the drivers linked

If you use drivers, such as either of these ( http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/led-drivers/7736949/ or http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/led-drivers/7736958/), you could simply cut off/disconnect the existing transformer from the cable to the lamp and and connect this cable to the (DC) output of the driver, since the driver has the required screw connecting terminals

Can I connect all three wires from the pucks to the single (? -I think ) DC output - fit 3 wires in each terminal? I thought I would need a feed from the driver to some kind of junction box to connect up the 3 wires...

 

[winston1]

The transformer has a 3 pin plug - it isn't wired in (DIYer friendly I guess) - so the electricians put 3 pin sockets above the cupboards to plug them into. So I would cut the transformer off the lead with the 3 pin plug and connect the new driver to that lead...
Rubbish diagram to show the layout of one set of lights.

.

You mean the electrician put 13 amp sockets on a lighting circuit? He was an idiot. Find another electrician.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

... individual lights had a transformer plug, ... The transformer has a 3 pin plug - it isn't wired in (DIYer friendly I guess) - so the electricians put 3 pin sockets above the cupboards to plug them into.

If the supplies for your existing lights had a flying lead and a plug the plug could have been removed and the supplies connected to flex outlets - there would have been no need for sockets.

£ to a p you have wallwarts, in which case:

So I would cut the transformer off the lead with the 3 pin plug and connect the new driver to that lead...

No - they aren't plugs, you can't use them.

I think the problem is that with the reduced wattage the current transformer will run higher than 12v and burn the LEDs out?

No - some power supplies have a minimum load, and will be unreliable or will switch off if under-loaded.

Can I connect all three wires from the pucks to the single (? -I think ) DC output - fit 3 wires in each terminal?

If they'll fit.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Lusi - if someone called Winston1 turns up, bleating about sockets on lighting circuits, just ignore him.

 

[winston1]

Lusi - if someone called Winston1 turns up, bleating about sockets on lighting circuits, just ignore him.

HOW DARE YOU TELL PEOPLE TO IGNORE ME OR ANYONE ELSE.

13 amp sockets should not be put on lighting circuits. Lighting circuits cannot handle 13 amps and someone someday will try to use those sockets with a 13 amp load.

 

[EFLImpudence]

How many 13A sockets should be allowed on a 32A circuit? Two or three?

Please preface your posts with "IMO" when they are not facts.

 

[winston1]

How many 13A sockets should be allowed on a 32A circuit? Two or three?

You know the answer to that. Think, putting a 13 amp load on to a 13 amp socket on a 32 amp circuit is not going to overload it. Doing the same thing on a 6 amp circuit will.

 

[JohnW2]

...Think, putting a 13 amp load on to a 13 amp socket on a 32 amp circuit is not going to overload it. Doing the same thing on a 6 amp circuit will.

Both true, but that wasn't EFLI's point ....

What if you put a 52A load on four (or maybe 6 or 8 ) 13A socket outlets on a 32A circuit - would the circuit be overloaded?

Why does that circuit have a 32A OPD?

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

The general practice is that you have sufficient 32 amp circuits for the amount of loads hat are likely to be used. You cannot of course guarantee that someone won't overload one circuit (most likely kitchen) unless you restrict each circuit to 2 outlets. (Remember at one time 1 15 amp socket was allowed per 15 amp circuit).

But it has never been the practice to put a larger capacity socket than the circuit can handle.

 

[JohnW2]

But it has never been the practice to put a larger capacity socket than the circuit can handle.

You still don't seem to get the point. Why is it any 'worse' to put one (or more) '13A' sockets on a circuit protected by a 6A OPD than it is to put, say, a dozen 13A outlets on a circuit protected by a 32A OPD?

The only 'risk' is an inconvenience - that if someone connects a 13A (or greater) load to a '6A circuit', the OPD will probably operate. The whole point of the OPD is to prevent the circuit's cable becoming dangerously overloaded - and that is just as true if one puts a 13A load on a 6A circuit as if one puts a 65A load on a 32A circuit.

Kind Regards, John