Riello 40G3B burner

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Location
Shropshire
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my burner keeps locking out .

Have uncoupled the pump which turns by hand with some resistance.
The motor is turning the fan impellor ok and runs through 12 sec time out and igniter spark ok.

When coupled to motor the system is humming until time out then shuts down.

There appears to be heat transfer from stalled pump into the pump and impellor housing suggesting plenty of torque.

Have not tested capacitor

Any ideas

Hood
 
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The capacitor is there to shock the motor into spinning in the correct direction.....is the motor actually turning the pump and fan when all is reassembled?
It sounds like the burner is actually running for a while before packing in as you mention heat...have you replaced the coil on the oil pump solenoid?
The oil pump should turn with 'smooth resistance'.
John :)
 
It is not clear exactly what the symptoms were and now are.

Was the motor running (and fan / fuel pump) all turning OK before you took the fuel pump off and now when you put the fuel pump back on it does not turn? If so then maybe the drive shaft to the fuel pump isn't located properly or it is not centrally located. (plus you still have the original problem.

If the motor was not actually turning and still isn't, then suspect the capacitor.
 
The capacitor is there to shock the motor into spinning in the correct direction.....is the motor actually turning the pump and fan when all is reassembled?
It sounds like the burner is actually running for a while before packing in as you mention heat...have you replaced the coil on the oil pump solenoid?
The oil pump should turn with 'smooth resistance'.
John :)

Thanks John.

No the boiler is not firing . The motor is humming due to being uable to turn the pump .The pump turns by hand and the motor turns the fan impellor when disconnected from pump but not together. Capicitor?

Engineer on way and will update. The pump was replaced 4 years ago but I hear Reillo has had problems with latest Kerosene and has a new design pump no 3020476. Until I can get the system running will not know if this the fault although the pump shaft does turn by hand with a little resistance(between my fingers)

Hood
 
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Hi
The fault is most likely to be the capacitor, but it could be the motor itself, especially if it doesn't get up to speed - around 2700 RPM.
I can't comment about the Riello pump issue though - that has passed me by!
Let us know how you get on.
John :)
 
If the motor, minus the fuel pump, spins up to normal speed then the capacitor is OK.
It sounds like the fuel pump is partially siezed.

Burnerman. It seems Riello had a manufacturing problem a year or so ago. New pumps would sieze after a short running period, sometimes as quick as 10 minutes from fitting! luckily I never got caught with a pile of warranty claims but some people did. (The suspect ones make a rapid "ticking / wirring noise when running.)

Reillo tried to blame the low sulpur content of kero but finally admitted that they had a problem.
 
If the motor, minus the fuel pump, spins up to normal speed then the capacitor is OK.
It sounds like the fuel pump is partially siezed.

Burnerman. It seems Riello had a manufacturing problem a year or so ago. New pumps would sieze after a short running period, sometimes as quick as 10 minutes from fitting! luckily I never got caught with a pile of warranty claims but some people did. (The suspect ones make a rapid "ticking / wirring noise when running.)

Reillo tried to blame the low sulpur content of kero but finally admitted that they had a problem.

Hi. New capacitor fitted and burner fired ok.

We now experimenting with the settings since cannot get the high stack temp down. Danfoss 0.60 85ES/ 110psi on kerosene/air slide 1.9/smoke 0-1/11.5Co2./ stack 255C. Cannot reduce air any more due to danger of soot and even higher outlet temp.Also the pressure is quite low.

Any views

Hood
 
If the motor, minus the fuel pump, spins up to normal speed then the capacitor is OK.
It sounds like the fuel pump is partially siezed.

Burnerman. It seems Riello had a manufacturing problem a year or so ago. New pumps would sieze after a short running period, sometimes as quick as 10 minutes from fitting! luckily I never got caught with a pile of warranty claims but some people did. (The suspect ones make a rapid "ticking / wirring noise when running.)

Reillo tried to blame the low sulpur content of kero but finally admitted that they had a problem.

Hi. New capacitor fitted and burner fired ok.

We now experimenting with the settings since cannot get the high stack temp down. Danfoss 0.60 85ES/ 110psi on kerosene/air slide 1.9/smoke 0-1/11.5Co2./ stack 255C. Cannot reduce air any more due to danger of soot and even higher outlet temp.Also the pressure is quite low.

Any views

Hood

Sorry I should have said cannot increase air any more otherwise the stack temp will be even higher and decreasing leads to sooting.

hood
 
Interestsing about the cpacitor. It must be lowcapacitancerather than open cicuit so there was enough torque to turn the motor and fan but not whith the much higher load of the fuel pump.

However this is now all a bit strange!
What figures does the manufacturers manul say? (and what boiler is it?)

Is the combustion gas path through the baffles and out of the flue clear?
Is it a balanced flue? If so try disconnecting the air inlet tube.
 
Interestsing about the cpacitor. It must be lowcapacitancerather than open cicuit so there was enough torque to turn the motor and fan but not whith the much higher load of the fuel pump.

However this is now all a bit strange!
What figures does the manufacturers manul say? (and what boiler is it?)

Is the combustion gas path through the baffles and out of the flue clear?
Is it a balanced flue? If so try disconnecting the air inlet tube.


Thanks for your continued interest in the saga.

The boiler is a Benson Jetstream series 3(Conventional Flue)- 69,000btu(50/70),with believe it or not quotes a rated oil pressure on kerosene of 150 psi with a Danfoss 0.65 80ES jet(although the spec called for Delevan 0.65 80W). The pressure is supprising since the spec also lists gas oil at 125psi in complete contradiction of which is normally used on high pressure(gas oil)
The boiler is 15 years old.

More supprising is Bensons Jetsteam series 4 which for the same rating boiler lists oil pressure at 110psi with a Danfoss nozzle 0.60 80H, and details the net flue temperature at 197C.(conventional flue)

All a mystery to me but the series 3 spec lacks the detail for the series 4.

Since the boiler has run quite well although noisy the subject of settings only came up in discussions with Riello on best settings. Apparently the calorific value of Kerosene has change somewhat from when the boiler was manufactured.
It was suggested a Danfoss 0.60 80Es nozzle be fitted and the oil pressure
set to somewhere between 8/9bars(120-130psi) and adjust air slide to give 12,5 %CO2.

This has not been achieved and the best result has been 110psi at 11.5%CO2. However the stack temperature is a lot higher at 250C which is worrying since Riello quoted 200-225C and near the figure achieved using the 0.65 jet. A test was also carried out to check the smoke and again was bordering on calling for more air which would have increased the outlet temperature.

It has been left that after a week I examine the baffles and boiler internals and report condition. Also do a further analysis of temperature etc.

The radiators appear to be heating up ok and not too many firings of the boiler. Have room stat set at 20c like before. We only have 5 radiators on the system including the bathroom, I calculated these having about 20,000btu,s plus hot water cylinder plus cottage with stone walls and double glazing.

You further comments welcomed.

Hood
 
Output of boiler is more than enough for your requirements.
I would not worry about an extra 25oC on the flue temp when the boiler is this old, and baffles will have distorted a little
 
Very interesting about the original oil pressure!!! Maybe 150 psi is a misprint for 105psi?

However if you have found that 110 psi is your optimum - well and good.

I would DEFINATELY look at the baffles and make sure that they are undamaged (a period with the fuel pressure at 150psi may well have damaged, at least, the lower one, thus letting hotter than normal gases by!)
Also check that the baffles are correctly orientated. i.e. the first, lower baffle with the "cut-out" toward the front of the boiler , the next toward the rear etc. Check in the manual for correct orientation. I would not wait a week to do this!!
Good Luck.
 
OilLecky";p="1504726 said:
Interestsing about the cpacitor. It must be lowcapacitancerather than open cicuit so there was enough torque to turn the motor and fan but not whith the much higher load of the fuel pump.
However this is now all a bit strange!
What figures does the manufacturers manul say? (and what boiler is it?)

Is the combustion gas path through the baffles and out of the flue clear?
Is it a balanced flue? If so try disconnecting the air inlet tube.[/quote

I would say that 95% of the caps i change are low capacitance.
1.5uf low is enough to cause the above problem.
Unless the electrolyte leaks out they do not go o/c.
 
Very interesting about the original oil pressure!!! Maybe 150 psi is a misprint for 105psi?

However if you have found that 110 psi is your optimum - well and good.

I would DEFINATELY look at the baffles and make sure that they are undamaged (a period with the fuel pressure at 150psi may well have damaged, at least, the lower one, thus letting hotter than normal gases by!)
Also check that the baffles are correctly orientated. i.e. the first, lower baffle with the "cut-out" toward the front of the boiler , the next toward the rear etc. Check in the manual for correct orientation. I would not wait a week to do this!!
Good Luck.

Thanks again

Well the baffles are in first class condition and checked level with no distortion. They are assembled as you suggest and what the manual advises.

There are questions now as to whether the boiler is absorbing the heat!!!
So here are the running figures. From a cold house( 16C ) and boiler thermostat set to 6 on a scale 0-10 (it is cold today) the boiler fires up and runs for 4 mins and shuts down for 2 mins. The radiators are up to full temperature in about 60 mins. As the house absorbs heat and settles down to 19-20 C the boiler firing cycle slows down to maybe 8 mins. The boiler on time is then fairly constant at around 2 mins.

The system is charged with Fernox and is a conventional type system(not combination)

It does not suffer from air contamination.

Have not done a water outlet and return temperature yet.



Also wondered if engineers pressure gauge calibrated correct but then he did set up boiler for CO2 11.5 with adjustment to air slide. I seem to think as we increased pressure the analyser readings were no good. The air slide is set around 2 which is in the right area.

Will let you know further observations and tweaks!!!

Regards
Hood
 
I think that I may be running out of suggestions Hood.
There seems to be 2 relevant factors and although seeming to be similar I am trying understand exactly why they are both happening. This is my thought process.

1. The flue temperaure is excessive.
2. The boiler gets up to temperature and cuts out eearly. ( It short cycles.)

Normally we wait for the boiler to come up to temperature before we take flue gas readings. (and I imagine your man with the test equipment did this)
I wonder, if he put a temperature probe in the flue just after start, what the temperature would be? Maybe much lower?
So perhaps the hot water is not being carried away allowing both the boiler jacket AND the flue gas temperature to rise!

Reasons for hot water not being carried away? Circulating pump failed or set to low speed or the system, including the pump, partially blocked with sludge? Check the circulating pump, Hood. Do you know about bleeding the pump by losening the centre screw (power off and wit han old towel and drip tray handy!) and if the pump is not turning remove this screw and put a screwdriver in the slot and spin the pump rotor? When you loosen the screw do you just get a dribble of water or a flow and what colour is the water? Let it bleed for a while becasue the water will probably be black at first anyway.
 

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