SPD's - are they required or just nice to have?

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Hi, in a commercial unit with a completely new electrical installation inc DB etc.
Are SPD's required or just a nicety?
I know what they are, how they work and how they are fitted but not if they are needed.
There is a calc that can be done but I cant figure it out, the equipment they protect would be more than 5 times the SPD's value.
 
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Required in almost all installations.
The calculation is mostly useless, if you get to that you have probably missed something already.
Even if it's actually needed, the calculation only covers transients from lightning. Transients from other sources must also be considered.
The section about value of the installation is irrelevant, there are no installations that have nothing of value in them.
 
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I'm a little confused. Why are you highlighting a requirement for SPDs to protect against "interruption of commercial or industrial activity" in this DIY forum which is clearly intended to relate primarily to domestic electrical installations?

Edit: Ah, I've just properly read the OP, which relates to a commercial installation - my apologies. However, your initial response said that SPDs were "required in almost all installations". Did you intend that to also only relate to commercial/industrial ones?

Kind Regards, John
 
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I know - see my edit (and questions) above, which you presumably had not seen when you replied.

Kind Regards, John
 
I fitted one to my house, was asked when I bought the board if I wanted it, and said yes, however under ground supply from a transformer in a brick and concrete building and were not originally specified for the building, so why are they needed now?

I did loose a video recorder some years ago in a storm, but I am sure the damage was from aerial not mains supply, and think the likelihood of damage from an electric storm onto the satellite dish half way up my wall is rather remote. Freeview useless where I live.

So the big question is if for last 69 years of my life I have not needed one, why do I need it now? I suppose the same question could be raised over RCD protection, for 40 years I never had RCD protection, I have only had it for last 28 years, but I have seen where water ingress has caused them to trip and possibly saved having a fire, I have only had one belt in last 28 years at home, and I am sure I was disconnected from the supply due to muscle contraction and falling on the floor nearly as fast as the RCD tripped, all an RCD does is reduce time connected, and the belt was due to builder not using safe zones for wiring, had safe zones been used, I would not have got the belt to start with.

So the big question is what has changed so now needed?
 
I think there's a far greater amount of Electrical equipment in Homes and Businesses these days that are far more susceptible to damage by Surges on Networks.
 
.... I did loose a video recorder some years ago in a storm, but I am sure the damage was from aerial not mains supply, and think the likelihood of damage from an electric storm onto the satellite dish half way up my wall is rather remote. .... So the big question is if for last 69 years of my life I have not needed one, why do I need it now? I suppose the same question could be raised over RCD protection, for 40 years I never had RCD protection, I have only had it for last 28 years ....
Quite so. As you know, I have often expressed uncertainties about RCDs (and, more recently, about 'types' of RCDs/RCBOs), but I think that the situation is even more iffy with SPDs, and I have to suspect that SPDs are "a solution looking for a problem".

You are able to cite one personal experience (in 69 years) in which it is possible (but not certain) that an SPD might have been the cause of the failure of a piece of equipment, but many of us could not think of even one case in which there was any certainty - and I imagine that it is incredibly rare that an SPD would could be argued to have had any impact on risks 'to life and limb' (which, to my mind, puts it in an even more iffy category than RCDs).
So the big question is what has changed so now needed?
As I often point out, that, in itself, is not necessarily a particularly good question/argument, since there are countless examples (in all walks of life) of hazards which have not increased over time, but which are now considered unacceptable, although they were accepted just a few decades ago. However, in the case of SPDs (and maybe even RCDs), I am far from convinced that there ever has been (or is) a significant hazard.

Kind Regards, John
 
I think there's a far greater amount of Electrical equipment in Homes and Businesses these days that are far more susceptible to damage by Surges on Networks.
That's what the proponents always say, but I'm as yet far from convinced (as I similarly am in relation to 'types' of rcds) that this is particularly 'evidence-based'.

How many of your items of electrical/electronic equipment have been damaged by what you suspect to have been 'surges'?

Whatever, unless it can be argued that there is an appreciable risk to life and limb, should it not be left to individuals to decide whether they want to protect their equipment in this fashion, rather than for regulations to 'require' them to have it?

One interesting point is that many people, including a good few here, have always been pretty scathing about people who 'waste their money' on 'surge protected' extension leads etc. - so why is it different if the SPD is in their CU?

Kind Regards, John
 
None of mine and not many of others but we do have more equipment that could get damaged. The only reason I'd fit is as it's a requirement tbh
 
None of mine and not many of others but we do have more equipment that could get damaged. The only reason I'd fit is as it's a requirement tbh
Quite so, and I suspect that very many people feel the same - which begs the question as to why it ever should be a 'requirement', doesn't it?

Kind Regards, John
 
Cheers guys, I doubt they will get fitted but I thought I'd make sure of my facts before asking why they are not :)
 
IMO they are mostly a complete and utter waste of time and money - and I do have experience of dealing with "blown up" equipment.
However, where I've experienced problems, it's pretty well always been obvious that the problem would NOT have been mitigated at all by an SPD in the mains as it's all been differential surges between separate services (typically between phone lines and mains) or in one significant event earth differentials across a site.
Exhibit A (early 90s) - laptop brought back from Madagascar. Customer living part of the time in the UK, but at the time working in Madagascar. Suffered major lightning strike to one or both of phone and mains. Phone connector on modem board had some heat distortion to the plastic, chips "blown to bits", laptop itself blown, power brick blown open. Customer reports that table lamp completely unaffected, as was the standard (not mains powered) phone.
Exhibit B (late 90s) - my boss at the time lived in a rather nice house in the country. After a good thunderstorm, anything connected between phone and mains (fax, answering machine) blown, nothing else damaged.
Exhibit C (mid 90s) - shortly before I started work at company in exhibit B but I was doing their IT. There was (for this area) an unusually powerful thunderstorm, and customer phoned to say there'd been a loud bang, the computers were down, and there was a "burning smell" from the computer room. From the description I reckon they had a ground strike a few hundred yards away in the fields. At the time we had something in the order of 40-50 devices connected to one server over RS232 serial lines - these were a mix of printers, "green screen" terminals, Macs, and PCs. Basically, the further away from the main server, the more extensive the damage - many devices close to it were not damaged at all, others in the building lost their serial ports, for some in the other building (but sharing the same earth and substation which supplied only that site) were more badly damaged. The central server came off worst as it had multiple paths feeding the surge into it. This was a classic ground differential problem which an SPD would not have helped with.

Now IFF you fit an SPD AND you take every other service via that point and through a surge protector sharing the same common "ground" point, then and only then would an SPD actually do much good in most situations. In other situations it could actually make things worse :rolleyes: As for equipment getting more sensitive, well that's sort of true and sort of a red herring. It's only true in as much as switch mode power supplies are much less forgiving of surges than the old fashioned transformer rectifier types. But what should be happening is equipment getting less easily damaged - it's not like lightning is an unknown phenomenon. Unfortunately, I think it's more a case of equipment design getting crapper - especially the "Chinese Export" carp with all cost (and standards conformance) designed out of it.
 
It's a single user unit with 1 pc, security stuff and a telephone.
I don't think we are bothering. :)
 

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