1. Visiting from the US? Why not try DIYnot.US instead? Click here to continue to DIYnot.US.
    Dismiss Notice

Talking of breaking the law...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ellal, 9 Sep 2020.

  1. ellal

    ellal

    Joined:
    23 May 2004
    Messages:
    12,303
    Thanks Received:
    249
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    The UK government said...

    "Parliament is sovereign as a matter of domestic law and can pass legislation which is in breach of the UK's treaty obligations."

    Thus the UK will become a pariah state that cannot be trusted...

    But then the brexiteers knew exactly what they voted for, which is to ruin the country!
     
  2. Sponsored Links
  3. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    25,208
    Thanks Received:
    1,786
    Location:
    S. Uplands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    It's easy to predict, he has a habit of it.

    12 U turns just over summer

    He said wouldn't ask for an extension....and he did
    He said he would never surrender to the EU and put a border down the Irish Sea.....and he did
     
  4. Ryler

    Ryler

    Joined:
    21 Oct 2019
    Messages:
    2,490
    Thanks Received:
    165
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I thought you were leaving the country? :mrgreen:
     
  5. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    25,208
    Thanks Received:
    1,786
    Location:
    S. Uplands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    this breaking an International Treaty is classic Cummings

    Boris cant deliver what he promised, so he is now throwing any old shoite at the wall hoping it will stick
    It wont

    And no deal isnt a politically sensible option: it creates visible chaos immediately after end of transition, which will be damaging politically.

    And so it is bye bye ickle fishies :ROFLMAO:
     
  6. JohnD

    JohnD

    Joined:
    15 Nov 2005
    Messages:
    74,160
    Thanks Received:
    4,282
    Location:
    Crossgates, Europe
    Country:
    Cook Islands
    surely some of them voted to stay in the single market?

    it was going to be the easiest deal in history, remember?

    All the advantages of membership without paying membership fees or complying with membership rules.

    SingleMarket.jpg
     
  7. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    25,208
    Thanks Received:
    1,786
    Location:
    S. Uplands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    So Johnson has no strategy, he is just being guided by speculators who are making a quick 100million or three while the UK has its trousers pulled down in front of the world
     
  8. motorbiking

    motorbiking

    Joined:
    31 May 2016
    Messages:
    6,797
    Thanks Received:
    771
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    This isn't a first.

    Plenty of international treaties never make it in to domestic law. Not just a UK thing.
     
  9. fillyboy

    fillyboy

    Joined:
    2 Jul 2019
    Messages:
    7,196
    Thanks Received:
    626
    Location:
    cornwall
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Classic Gina Miller.

    “treaty obligations only become binding to the extent that they are enshrined in domestic legislation. Whether to enact or repeal legislation, and the content of that legislation, is for Parliament and Parliament alone. This principle was recently approved unanimously by the Supreme Court in R (Miller) v Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union [2017] UKSC 5.”

    Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/talking-of-breaking-the-law.552479/page-5#ixzz6XfiLQCsg
     
  10. Sponsored Links
  11. fillyboy

    fillyboy

    Joined:
    2 Jul 2019
    Messages:
    7,196
    Thanks Received:
    626
    Location:
    cornwall
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Hey Notchy baby.

    HMG LEGAL POSITION: UKIM BILL AND NORTHERN IRELAND PROTOCOL This is the Government’s legal position on the UK Internal Market Bill (“the Bill”) which was introduced on 9 September. The purpose of the Bill is to promote the continued functioning of the internal market in the UK after the conclusion of the transition period provided for in the Withdrawal Agreement and the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. The Bill also provides for how aspects of the Northern Ireland Protocol to the Withdrawal Agreement apply in the UK’s domestic law. In particular it ensures that the government will be able to deliver its commitments to protect peace in Northern Ireland and the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement, and to strengthen and maintain the UK internal market. Clauses 42 and 43 of the Bill give HMG the power to make regulations to (i) disapply or modify the application of any exit procedures that would otherwise be applicable to goods moving from Northern Ireland to Great Britain, and (ii) make regulations setting out how the provisions of the Northern Ireland Protocol on State aid are to be given effect for the purposes of domestic law. The clauses provide that these powers may be exercised in a way that is incompatible with provisions of the Withdrawal Agreement. Clause 45 of the Bill expressly provides that these clauses, and any regulations made under them, have effect notwithstanding any international or domestic law with which they may be incompatible or inconsistent. This ‘notwithstanding provision’ partially disapplies Article 4 of the Withdrawal Agreement because it removes the possibility of challenge before domestic courts to enforce the rights and remedies provided for in the Withdrawal Agreement. The effect is to disapply the EU law concept of ‘direct effect’. This is the case regardless of whether any regulations made under clause 42 or 43 of the Bill are in fact incompatible with the Withdrawal Agreement. It is an established principle of international law that a state is obliged to discharge its treaty obligations in good faith. This is, and will remain, the key principle in informing the UK’s approach to international relations. However, in the difficult and highly exceptional circumstances in which we find ourselves, it is important to remember the fundamental principle of Parliamentary sovereignty. Parliament is sovereign as a matter of domestic law and can pass legislation which is in breach of the UK’s Treaty obligations. Parliament would not be acting unconstitutionally in enacting such legislation. This ‘dualist’ approach is shared by other, similar legal systems such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Under this approach, treaty obligations only become binding to the extent that they are enshrined in domestic legislation. Whether to enact or repeal legislation, and the content of that legislation, is for Parliament and Parliament alone. This principle was recently approved unanimously by the Supreme Court in R (Miller) v Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union [2017] UKSC 5. The legislation which implements the Withdrawal Agreement including the Northern Ireland Protocol is expressly subject to the principle of parliamentary sovereignty. Parliament’s ability to pass provisions that would take precedence over the Withdrawal Agreement was expressly confirmed in section 38 of the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020, with specific reference to the EU law concept of ‘direct effect
     
  12. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    25,208
    Thanks Received:
    1,786
    Location:
    S. Uplands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Yeah you are talking Brexit hogwash as usual.

    prof Mark Elliott:

    'In a dualist system, matters set out in treaties are *enforceable in* domestic law only to the extent that they are enshrined in domestic legislation — but treaty obligations are nevertheless *binding* on the State in *international law"

    Who cares anyway, it's only a dead cat.....Boris is desperate so is resorting to anything to deflect attention.
     
  13. fillyboy

    fillyboy

    Joined:
    2 Jul 2019
    Messages:
    7,196
    Thanks Received:
    626
    Location:
    cornwall
    Country:
    United Kingdom

    Sounds like a bed wetter.
     
  14. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    25,208
    Thanks Received:
    1,786
    Location:
    S. Uplands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    The Government’s statement is risible because it utterly misses the central point of concern. That concern is that the Internal Market Bill authorises Ministers to repudiate specific, critical and recently agreed legal obligations under the Withdrawal Agreement & NI Protocol

    The AG freely acknowledges this and concedes that the UK is required, as a matter of international law, to discharge its treat obligations in good faith. She then attempts, but fails, to make an exceptionalist argument based on parliamentary sovereignty & dualism

    The contention appears to be that because the UK’s internal constitutional arrangements allow Parliament, as a matter of *domestic* law, validly to enact any *domestic* law, this somehow makes it acceptable for the UK to breach *international* law. That is a non sequitur

    The AG also places weight on but misunderstands the implications of the ‘dualist’ nature of the UK legal system. She claims that it means that ‘treaty obligations only become binding to the extent that they are enshrined in domestic legislation’. That is flatly incorrect

    The Government’s argument is that Parliament’s legal capacity in domestic law to make any law it wants somehow makes it acceptable, as a matter of international law, for the UK to renege on its treaty obligations. But the latter does not follow from the former

    Contrary to the Government’s position, the UK, like every other State, is required in international law to abide by its treaty obligations. Neither parliamentary sovereignty nor the notion of dualism is any answer to that point


    So the govt are making their case built on a non sequitur.

    How embarrassing for them......still there are a few people around naive enough to fall for it
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    25,208
    Thanks Received:
    1,786
    Location:
    S. Uplands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    No he has debunked your hogwash
     
  16. motorbiking

    motorbiking

    Joined:
    31 May 2016
    Messages:
    6,797
    Thanks Received:
    771
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I think bojo has an angle from a legal point of view. It all depends on the timing of the bill. If we leave without a future relationship deal then the ability of the EU court to rule in any way that would be binding on the UK is questionable.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    25,208
    Thanks Received:
    1,786
    Location:
    S. Uplands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    We already have, it's called the Withdrawal act.

    The only negotiations now are about a trading relationship, although the UK only want a bare bones deal anyway.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
Loading...

Share This Page