The French

[Notch7]

Seriously notch, you’ve become as radicalised about the eu and our government as Ellal has about coronavirus

Let’s look at events:

1. Macron and Johnson have a meeting.
2. Johnson agreed to “sort it out”
3 UK press spin it as “Macron hasn’t carried out his threat”
4 French press spin it as “Macron gets agreement from Johnson on fishing licenses”.


There’s nothing radicalised about me, I’m seeing the wider issue.

I would gently suggest you are radicalised, you do read the Telegraph, that’s about as close as a Johnson propaganda paper as one can get.

 

[fillyboy]

Let’s look at events:

1. Macron and Johnson have a meeting.
2. Johnson agreed to “sort it out”
3 UK press spin it as “Macron hasn’t carried out his threat”
4 French press spin it as “Macron gets agreement from Johnson on fishing licenses”.


There’s nothing radicalised about me, I’m seeing the wider issue.

I would gently suggest you are radicalised, you do read the Telegraph, that’s about as close as a Johnson propaganda paper as one can get.

Lets look at events.

1. Liz Truss gives Macron 48 hours to withdraw threats.

2. Macron withdraws threats.

 

[AngleEyes]

Let’s look at events

Lets look at events.

To be fair, there's always going to be a different gloss applied to events by politicians and national press, it's in their job description.

The pressure on UK has not been purely French pressure:
"Fourteen EU member states are preparing to issue a joint declaration accusing the British government of risking “significant economic and social damage” to their fishing communities, as wider relations appear close to breaking point.
In the statement, seen by the Guardian, France, Belgium, Ireland, Spain, the Netherlands, Germany, Cyprus, Portugal, Denmark, Italy, Lithuania, Sweden, Malta and Latvia will call for the UK to act “in the spirit and the letter” of the Brexit deal struck last Christmas Eve."
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...int-warning-to-uk-over-reduced-fishing-rights

 

[AngleEyes]

Perhaps you should learn to read.

Here is the relevant details in simplified language:

"“In particular, we note that the United Kingdom requires evidence of geolocation for vessels under 12 metres, whereas such evidence is not provided for in the trade and cooperation agreement and fishermen are not required to have it under EU rules,” the statement says. “The majority of the fleets concerned are small-scale fishing fleets, dependent on narrow maritime zones with no possibility of moving their activity, and therefore the failure to resolve these matters [is] likely to cause significant economic and social damage to the communities that depend on them.”

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...int-warning-to-uk-over-reduced-fishing-rights

 

[AngleEyes]

A further 49 licences have been issued:
"Jersey has issued another 49 licences to French boats in an apparent attempt to de-escalate a post-Brexit row over fishing rights in which the UK and France have issued tit-for-tat threats."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/01/france-brexit-fishing-row-liz-truss

 

[Notch7]

Lets look at events.

1. Liz Truss gives Macron 48 hours to withdraw threats.

2. Macron withdraws threats.

I can’t believe you aren’t too embarrassed to post that……..it’s truly ridiculous.

Liz Truss

 

[JohnD]

Lets look at events.

Let's look at the paragraph in the agreement which you say justifies the UK's demands


oooops - my mistake. You failed to find it.

 

[Notch7]

Lets look at events.

1. Liz Truss gives Macron 48 hours to withdraw threats.

2. Macron withdraws threats.

Yes, let’s look at that…..

So Liz Truss says if the French don’t back down the UK will use the trade deal dispute mechanism:

1. the TCA is between UK and EU, so unsuitable in regards to France
2. the TCA dispute mechanism (A738), allows 10 days for the other side to respond.

in other words Truss is spouting bolox, it’s fodder for brexers.

 

[Lower]

Yes, let’s look at that…..

So Liz Truss says if the French don’t back down the UK will use the trade deal dispute mechanism:

1. the TCA is between UK and EU, so unsuitable in regards to France
2. the TCA dispute mechanism (A738), allows 10 days for the other side to respond.

in other words Truss is spouting bolox, it’s fodder for brexers.

1. The licences in dispute are granted under the agreement with the EU. France is part of the EU, so surely its entirely legally right to use the trade dispute mechanism with the EU.
2. The TCA dispute mechanism may allow 10 days for the other side to respond, but that's irrelevant. If you're going to use the legal mechanisms rather than illegal sanctions like the French were threatening, you have to initiate the process irrespective of how it them works.

Either way, the French have publicly sabre rattled, the UK have responded by publicly sabre rattling back. Its how the game is played and nothing to do with fodder for brexers or your hatred for anything related to our current government.

You seem to have fallen into the remoaner mindset of assuming that the UK pushing for the a positive outcome for the benefit of the UK is automatically unreasonable and that the UK should just give the benevolent EU whatever it asks for.

 

[fillyboy]

Let's look at the paragraph in the agreement which you say justifies the UK's demands


oooops - my mistake. You failed to find it.

Nope, it's still in article 500

(c) access to the waters of the Parties between six and twelve nautical miles from the baselines in ICES divisions 4c and 7d-g for qualifying vessels to the extent that Union fishing vessels and United Kingdom fishing vessels had access to those waters on 31 December 2020. For the purposes of point (c), "qualifying vessel" means a vessel of a Party which fished in the zone mentioned in the previous sentence in four of the years between 2012 and 2016, or its direct replacement.

 

[fillyboy]

1. The licences in dispute are granted under the agreement with the EU. France is part of the EU, so surely its entirely legally right to use the trade dispute mechanism with the EU.

If it doesn't apply to France, that lets Poland off the hook legally.

 

[JohnD]

nothing in there about the proof UK has tried demanding.

 

[fillyboy]

nothing in there about the proof UK has tried demanding.

Without proof they can't be a 'qualifying vessel', otherwise every vessel everywhere would qualify for a permanent licence to fish UK waters.

For the purposes of point (c), "qualifying vessel" means a vessel of a Party which fished in the zone mentioned in the previous sentence in four of the years between 2012 and 2016, or its direct replacement.

 

[JohnD]

so what is the proof that, when negotiating the treaty and before agreeing to it, the UK included in the treaty terms?

 

[fillyboy]

so what is the proof that, when negotiating the treaty and before agreeing to it, the UK included in the treaty terms?

"qualifying vessel" means a vessel of a Party which fished in the zone mentioned in the previous sentence in four of the years between 2012 and 2016, or its direct replacement.

Proof that they fished in UK waters before obviously. Lots of boats simply gave rough positions and dates and got licences, others were refused licences because historical satellite data showed they were lying.