The Times articles.

[Shutpa]

Softus: How do you do what you did in the previous post ... Make a reference to a part of a post?

I've often thought it would be useful but only seem to refer to a page rather than the actual post.

Reference this, in which you wrote:

I thought you said earlier that you-know-who wasn't corresponding with you. If he decides to forgive you and provide you with an answer, he will probably break your post up into 20 or 30 quotes - do you really want that? Count your blessings and leave him in your history file.

 

[Softus]

http://tinyurl.com/3chmf

 

[Balenza]

Joe 90 wrote

The general public are certainly not in favour of wholesale immigration so why do we have it?

That may be the case but foreign workers play a vital role in the UK.
I know several factories close to my locality which would be closed if it were not for foreign labour. They are a godsend for MD's and long may it last.
One Polish family ( about 17 of them) reside under the one roof in the home they rent and all work in the same factory. (stripping meat from cows heads which is packaged for Tesco's as burgers)
The grandmother of the family ( in her late sixties) does the 12 hour nightshift. English people capable of doing this existed in previous centuries. Young people nowadays don't want to know and anything related to hard labour is alien to them.

 

[megawatt]

I thought you said earlier that you-know-who wasn't corresponding with you. If he decides to forgive you and provide you with an answer, he will probably break your post up into 20 or 30 quotes - do you really want that? Count your blessings and leave him in your history file.

Quite true I did and I am actually invisible to Softus from a correspondence point of view though I was actually hoping that, despite not wishing to debate issues with me, the old fella may be capable of offering help when it was asked for (rather naively as it turns out).

I'm sure someone else will be able to advise eventually if I keep asking the question

 

[megawatt]

Or I could, of course, do as others have and create an entirely new identity and post the question under that ID ... If I were a devious underhanded kind of guy

 

[libby lou lou]

One Polish family ( about 17 of them) reside under the one roof in the home they rent




I know the Pakistanis did this in the 60/70 s. Is it not illegal today, ? HSE ?

 

[Softus]

megawatt, I was crediting you with the wherewithal to work it out for yourself.

The reference I posted was nothing more than a URL to a specific post. The URL, and others like it, can be found using the search feature.

 

[sotfus]

Thanks

 

[megawatt]

Whilst waiting for your last post I stumbled across the URL format I was looking for ...

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=109015&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=31

Which lets the post I'm interested in appear at the top of the page.

Sometimes we all need to be an OP and ask for help ... It's good to talk

MW

 

[bernardgreen]

I'm waiting for someone to put the pro immigration debate.

OK Joe

How many jobs that immigrants willing take on are rejected by "british" people.

You may be too young to remember when London Transport had difficulty in finding drivers and conductors at wages that could be afforded by the passengers. ( to pay the rates demanded by the british candidates would have led to increases in fare ) So they encouraged immigrants to come and work.

This may seem to suggest the immigrants worked for lower wages. They did work for lower wages mainly because their life style was achievable with a lower wage and they were not work shy.

There are un-employed "british" who could do the jobs that immigrants are taking but they won't take them. They find these jobs are below their status in life. ( and of course there are the pure work shy who prefer to sit and watch Sky TV all day while living on other peoples charity via social benefit payments )

 

[bernardgreen]

One Polish family ( about 17 of them) reside under the one roof in the home they rent

I know the Pakistanis did this in the 60/70 s. Is it not illegal today, ? HSE ?

It was not that un-common for such large british families to live in one house before immigration into the UK began.

 

[joe-90]

Joe 90 wrote

The general public are certainly not in favour of wholesale immigration so why do we have it?

That may be the case but foreign workers play a vital role in the UK.
I know several factories close to my locality which would be closed if it were not for foreign labour. They are a godsend for MD's and long may it last.
One Polish family ( about 17 of them) reside under the one roof in the home they rent and all work in the same factory. (stripping meat from cows heads which is packaged for Tesco's as burgers)
The grandmother of the family ( in her late sixties) does the 12 hour nightshift. English people capable of doing this existed in previous centuries. Young people nowadays don't want to know and anything related to hard labour is alien to them.

Would you like to live next door to a family of 17? Imagine a whole street of families of 17. How many cars to a household? How much rubbish in the bins?
I don't eat burgers because they are full of face meat and fat, but if I did I'd expect to pay the people that produced them a good living wage rather than a subsistence minimum wage. I'd be more than happy to pay an extra 20% for the product at the check-outs.
Would you agree to your daughter working in such a factory for a pittance?
What's wrong with a proper day's pay for a proper days work?
Where I live the most demeaning job I can think of is a 'bin man'. Is there a shortage? No! It pays well and the employer offers good working conditions. Do the Brits do this demeaning work? As far as I can tell they all seem to be Brits according to their accents.
So getting back to your factory story, what is the point in employing a Pole on derisory wages when it means that a Brit is out of work as they can't live on that sort of income? The Pole on minimum wage pays virtually no tax yet the Brit that would have done the job for a decent wage is on benefits that are 10 times what the Pole is paying in tax. If the UK was a business then policies like that would see it bankrupt. Then again. the UK IS a business so what of the future?
Unemployment amongst the British workforce is rising for the simple reason they have been undercut by a continual influx of low-paid migrants. The only party to benefit is the factory owner - so the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Welcome to the new Dickensian society. Welcome to a new generation of children growing up in poverty. Welcome to third-world Britain.
I guess Brit families could all live in houses of 17 or more - but what would that do for our society? Just where is this country heading? Is this a land of opportunity for our young people? Or a land of despair?

 

[Softus]

Many of your facts don't stack up joe, or are self-conflicting. This one in particular is contradicted by the recent factory fire:

Unemployment amongst the British workforce is rising for the simple reason they have been undercut by a continual influx of low-paid migrants. The only party to benefit is the factory owner - so the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

...because many believe the beneficiary of the meagre wages to be supermarket shoppers, which is pretty much all of us.

That isn't to say that the business owners delivering the products to us don't get rich, but successful business owners always have.

Unskilled wages are low because it's a free market in a capitalist economy in a democratic country, not because of immigration.

House prices are artificially high (in most areas) because of the shift in the way people live, increased fragmentation of families, increased commuting distances, and a horrifying amount of personal debt, not because of immigration.

Clearly you're passionate about the subject, but I don't know if it's because you have some extraordinary vision that other people don't, or whether you're just whipped up by the apparent reluctance of others to align with you.

Either way, it isn't anyone else's fault - if you can't persuade people to see your point of view, then you're not doing a very good job of putting it across. I, for one, am unlikely to take your unsubstantiated claims at face value - I happen to like hard evidence, and you very rarely produce any.

 

[joe-90]

Softus. You seem to be living in a black and white world. Look at it this way.

Scientists aren't actually sure about why climate change happens, but they know that it does happen and that carbon emissions add to it.

Doctors aren't really sure why certain cells turn cancerous, but they know that it happens and that cigarette smoking is a leading cause.

No-one is suggesting that immigration is the sole cause of the nation's ills, but it would appear that it does add to them.

If you flood any market with cheap labour then that will suppress wage rises.

If those people also live in houses that the indigenous population would normally live in - then that fuels house price rises.

That means (in black and white terms) that British people are earning less yet paying more for their housing needs (buy or rent).
It therefore follows, that more children will be raised in the misery of poverty.

You don't need 'hard facts' to understand what is happening, just basic common sense.

 

[tim west]

Immigration has been going on a very long time now, is that why house prices are so dear these days? And I thought it was to do with those greedy developers, huh learn something new every day!