Unversal Basic Income?

[ReganAndCarter]

Don't know much about this, but it does smack of communism. Also, I know talk of The Great Reset may well be considered conspiracy theorist, but UBIs are one of the requirements for this to happen. Not saying I believe in TGR, but the fact that UBIs have been planned in some countries and planned for others - it does give ammunition to conspiracy theorists.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

 

[sxturbo]

"Some high profile celebrities, including billionaire businessman Elon Musk, have backed the idea, while the UK Labour Party said it would explore a pilot of UBI in its 2019 general election manifesto.

Various versions of the scheme have been trialled around the world, including in Finland, where 2,000 unemployed people were paid €560 (£480) per month for two years.

Researchers found the scheme left those happier and less stressed, but did not aid them in finding work."

i stopped reading after this, tells me all i need to know...

 

[motorbiking]

Sounds great, no need to work when the money tree pays me for free.

It would probably lead to inflation and higher taxes. It might reduce crime.

Unfortunately, people need to have the incentive of reward to work and that reward has to give you things that you otherwise can't get. Its not really fare for a low income worker to have the same standard of living as someone working the system.

 

[Brigade77]

I've read quite a lot about the economic principles behind UBI & the results where it's been trialled.

It works & it certainly works better than the current system of benefits.

What worries me is our politicians will twist & turn it into something totally unrecognisable from the economic modelling.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Also, I know talk of The Great Reset may well be considered conspiracy theorist,

It should not be; it is an openly stated manifesto from the WEF - whose meetings government leaders and billionaires attend.

 

[securespark]

What worries me is our politicians will twist & turn it into something totally unrecognisable from the economic modelling.

Just don't let IDS near it.....

 

[ellal]

Although it sounds ok in theory, in practice it will create a class of people with no hope of bettering themselves...

Which is a large majority stuck in a rut whilst other costs rise!

And the rich get to keep their often ill gotten gains and indeed get richer...

But then the rise of AI will mean in future that most will find it difficult to get a job, especially if their access to decent education is restricted due to cost and opportunity...

UBI has already started to be trialed under the guise of universal credit, and we can all see the disaster for the recipients that has been!
Social engineering and effective mass poverty in many areas!

Thus it is no conspiracy theory to believe that the great reset is underway!

 

[Notch7]

I think generally people who are comfortably off think it's a bad idea, people who are in poverty and struggling think it a good idea.

UBI sounds radical but isn't child benefit and tax credits rather similar.

Furlough is UBI really.

 

[SirGalahad]

Don't know much about this, but it does smack of communism. Also, I know talk of The Great Reset may well be considered conspiracy theorist, but UBIs are one of the requirements for this to happen. Not saying I believe in TGR, but the fact that UBIs have been planned in some countries and planned for others - it does give ammunition to conspiracy theorists.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

Leave UBI aside for the moment and look at the current system and how will it and the economy cope with the oncoming automation. Like the Industrial revolution we had a large change in the workforce, there were winners and losers.

The welfare system main purpose is to be a lever to manage the economy. In times of high unemployment - benefits payments stop the Aggregate Demand from collapsing and causing even further contraction. When times are better less people require the safety net.

Can anyone tell me what would happen if we have unemployment of 10m plus?

To access the welfare system and benefits there is a great deal of admin to manage it all - to check claims, pay claims etc.

With UBI you can do away with lots of this admin, there is nothing to cheat or game as everyone gets it. The point is - at what level it is set.

On to the issue of incentives. The argument that UBI will discincentivise work is wrong - it's to cover basic needs. It may have impact on those who work part time - but those working full time - would they give up their job for a basic income? It makes people more economically secure and have less money worries and the added stress.

Some of the biggest proponents of UBI are libertarians like Musk and other billionaires - they see the oncoming onslought of automation and we will need an economic system that can adjust better to more and more rapid changes in employment - or we can stick with todays boom and bust cycle.

 

[charliegolf]

Give everyone £x. Take most back from workers via tax (but they'd still get a little bit extra). Give NOTHING more, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, to anyone after that, who is fit for work. Those who cannot work continue to be helped by the state. Get the judgement of that right.

The right-wing version: start the process with 16 year olds* while they are still at school, and grow it through with a one-off raise at 18 or 20; so when they are 25+ and subsisting on the £x they get a month, it will be the norm to them. OR, they'll have an education/job and be topped up by the state.

CG

*Who can only remain in school if they display the attitudes expected in the workplace. No threat about taking the money away, rather a statement that education is a right requiring responsibility. Massive tick for the education of the masses.

 

[sxturbo]

From previous trials:


"Researchers found the scheme left those happier and less stressed, but did not aid them in finding work."

Clearly it isn't going to help fix the issue how people believe it will.

 

[mattylad]

Sounds like something else I will be paying for but getting no benefit from because I don't live in wales.

 

[charliegolf]

Sounds like something else I will be paying for but getting no benefit from because I don't live in wales.

I suspect it'll be 200 poorly chosen people; and the idea will fade away.

 

[^woody^]

Just remove all the free benefits (keep healthcare and the NHS) bring in National Self-Employment and bring back the debtors prisons. That will get everyone working, and sort out the shysters.

 

[transam]

Just remove all the free benefits (keep healthcare and the NHS) bring in National Self-Employment and bring back the debtors prisons. That will get everyone working, and sort out the shysters.

debtors prison may be a tadge extreme