Wetherspoons boss calls for more EU migration to tackle bar staff shortage

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

And at that point, how many Brexiteers said "hang on - this isnt what we were promised, maybe we should pause for a bit while we thrash out a proper plan, and then see if it is still what people want", and how many screamed that such suggestions were anti-democratic ideas put forward by enemies of the people and then went on to vote for a man who had lied to them in the first place and who had broken the law in order to stop our democratically elected parliament from taking back control?

That would require a realisation that Remainers were right all along, and that's never going to happen.
It was an ideological decision, not an economic nor a political one.

For pitys sake - WT* did they think would happen if we created a land border between the UK and the EU in a place where an international treaty forbids any physical border infrastructure?

Just the words, "did they think" would have sufficed.
The answer is obviously "No". They were prepared to let others do their thinking for them, and to believe whatever they were told.
If it was an ideological decision, it doesn't really matter what anyone said. It won't really matter how much damage is done or how much people suffer.
Neither economic nor political arguments will change anyone's mind, and stories of hardship will be waived away as a result of an ideological decision.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Poundland for one example.
Nothing wrong with what Tim Martin does.

When you start eating and drinking the cheapest stuff on the market, it's a slippery slope to poor health.

 

[ajohn]

It was an ideological decision, not an economic nor a political one.

Your forgetting the brexit pushers ace in the hole. Surprised that they won but it was a referendum so had to be done - no argument about it at all or any stipulated conditions as none were. Only that we left it.

An American political guru likened it to wanting to change their constitution. That would need a 2/3 majority not a marginal 50%. The 2/3 means the change really is wanted and rules out any argument about the need for a repeat. People could have added their contact detail to a web page to make the gov consider this aspect. Many did but it was quietly ignored.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Then after the referendum in the 2017 election the people returned more or less the same MPs, the majority of which were remainers, some of whom then pretended that they would fight for brexit even though they might have been voted in again because they were remainers.

 

[JohnD]

Neither economic nor political arguments will change anyone's mind, and stories of hardship will be waived away as a result of an ideological decision.

I saw someone on here claiming that if people had been kinder and more polite about his damaging stupidity, and not mentioned it, he might have given it up.

 

[Mottie]

An American political guru likened it to wanting to change their constitution. That would need a 2/3 majority not a marginal 50%. The 2/3 means the change really is wanted and rules out any argument about the need for a repeat. People could have added their contact detail to a web page to make the gov consider this aspect. Many did but it was quietly ignored.

But did the American constitution start about 50 years ago as something completely different to what it has changed into now?

 

[JohnD]

I'm pretty sure the 2nd Amendment mentions a well-regulated militia, and does not mention automatic weapons firing bullets designed to penetrate police armoured vests.

The people of the US who take an interest, and enough of their elected politicians and selected judges, have modified its meaning and effect without a 2/3rd vote.

 

[ajohn]

People can ignore the implications of referendums this guru pointed out if they like. He was using their constitution as an example. Sticking to it and arguing about it causes them problems of one sort or another. LOL As being in the EU does.

The european experiment has been replaced by the UK one now, That is a simple fact.The other fact is that the european one worked within it's limitations.

 

[Trazor]

How the population of Myanmar, must wish they had the right to bear arms..............

"By the logic of the 18th century, any society with a professional army could never be truly free. The men in charge of that army could order it to attack the citizens themselves, who, unarmed and unorganized, would be unable to fight back. This was why a well-regulated militia was necessary to the security of a free state: To be secure, a society needed to be able to defend itself; to be free, it could not exist merely at the whim of a standing army and its generals."

 

[ajohn]

Then after the referendum in the 2017 election the people returned more or less the same MPs, the majority of which were remainers, some of whom then pretended that they would fight for brexit even though they might have been voted in again because they were remainers.

That's just politics. In some respects it's a job. Not a bad one in the scheme of things really with a decent income and perks. Seems to attract some city failures.

One side is peopled with those that went to schools intended to produce people to run the empire - when we had one. Generally glib and well polished. Guaranteed at least one A level even if only in woodwork. They'll find something suitable. The old school tie which could obtain a job isn't shown any more but the links are still there. Talk to some and they expect us ordinary folk to be jealous. They can be clanish and also very polite when it suites.

LOL The other side are a bit more mixed. Not sure now but it did attract a number of better university graduates who though society was unfair. The establishment has been known to see them as closet communists.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

This was why a well-regulated militia was necessary to the security of a free state

Well regulated by whom?

To whom would such regulators be accountable?

Who would decide, and how, what the regulations should be?

Do you consider that the current US environment of gun ownership constitutes a well-regulated militia?

 

[Notch7]

Surprised that they won but it was a referendum so had to be done

no it did not

we have representative democracy -so MPs should decide what is best for the country on our behalf.

Sadly the Tory party led by liars chose what was best for them, not us, so we had brexit which has made them richer and fishermen, farmers, businessmen etc all poorer, along with the return of violence in Ireland

 

[Notch7]

That would require a realisation that Remainers were right all along, and that's never going to happen.
It was an ideological decision, not an economic nor a political one.



Just the words, "did they think" would have sufficed.
The answer is obviously "No". They were prepared to let others do their thinking for them, and to believe whatever they were told.
If it was an ideological decision, it doesn't really matter what anyone said. It won't really matter how much damage is done or how much people suffer.
Neither economic nor political arguments will change anyone's mind, and stories of hardship will be waived away as a result of an ideological decision.

you wanna be careful talking to yourself.....slippery slope.

 

[Bodd]

It was of course inevitable...

But I thought you knew exactly what you were voting for?

I dont blame myself. I blame the remain MPs and MEPs for not offering an alternative

 

[JP_]

The UK can't produce the quantity of food that it consumes

tell me about it. Our growing season is about 3 months. That is nothing.
My new greenhouse does get very hot though, I wonder if a heat pump could be used on a sunny winter day to warm the home... is that feasible?