What's going on here?

[Exinferis]

Hi all,

I've been trying to change the sockets in my bedroom from basic white to Black Nickel. Can anyone tell me what the heck is going on in the attached picture?

The way it's set up is this: Regular grey wire with black (N), Red (L) and Green/Yellow (E) wires which go into a 2-gang switched socket. From there there's a white sheathed wire (you can see it in the pic) which goes to the light switch, which is the one in the picture. More white wire then runs for about a metre to another light switch. Then more white wire to another 2-gang socket. (Hope you followed that!)

Thus far I've only been able to change the first 2-gang socket as, when I took the old light switch off I came across the wire loop which can be seen in the picture.

The guy who lived here before said he'd done some wiring and I'm pretty sure he's done this job.

Worth fixing myself or get a qualified spark out?

Cheers!
Ex.

 

[Mottie]

It don't know much about electrics but I do know that lights and sockets shouldn't be on the same circuit. Get a qualified electrician out. Immediately.

 

[Simon35]

Hi all,

I've been trying to change the sockets in my bedroom from basic white to Black Nickel. Can anyone tell me what the heck is going on in the attached picture?

The way it's set up is this: Regular grey wire with black (N), Red (L) and Green/Yellow (E) wires which go into a 2-gang switched socket. From there there's a white sheathed wire (you can see it in the pic) which goes to the light switch, which is the one in the picture. More white wire then runs for about a metre to another light switch. Then more white wire to another 2-gang socket. (Hope you followed that!)

Thus far I've only been able to change the first 2-gang socket as, when I took the old light switch off I came across the wire loop which can be seen in the picture.

The guy who lived here before said he'd done some wiring and I'm pretty sure he's done this job.

Worth fixing myself or get a qualified spark out?

Cheers!
Ex.

Are the light switches used to switch the sockets? Maybe for bedside lamps?

They may be fed from a lighting circuit from your consumer unit/fuse board, in which case you could fit 5 Amp lighting sockets.

Has one of the cpc's (earths) been chopped out of one of those cables?

Get an electrician to have a look. Don't panic though, your electrics aren't about to combust or kill.

White twin and earth is the same as grey twin and earth, except it's low smoke and zero halogen, or LSOH. Meaning that if it burns it releases less smoke and less dangerous chemicals. Nothing to worry about.

 

[motorbiking]

It looks like someone has taken a spur off the lighting circuit? Is this on the 32A ring or a 6A MCB?

 

[ericmark]

There are some basic rules, the supply should be split into circuits, and lights should be protected by a 16 amp overload device or less, and cables should be protected by an overload device which will under normal circumstances stop the cable being overloaded.

However there is nothing to stop us taking power from lighting or lighting from power as long as the above basic rules are met, and it is unlikely to cause danger for example by plunging one into darkness.

So using fused connection units (FCU) to supply lights from sockets, or supplying an odd fan or shaver socket from the lights is not wrong. Although it is frowned upon to fit 13A sockets to a lighting circuit it is not really that bad when those sockets are used to power lights, what we did do was fit 5 amp sockets to the lighting circuit to supply standard lamps and table lamps, however with so many lamps having walmart transformer plugs it has been required to use 13A to support them.

In an ideal world you should not have 13A sockets on lighting, and if you did at least you should have a label lighting only. However what you show may need a label but there is nothing one could say is wrong from your description other than maybe lack of labels.

So what you need to do it make a plan of every socket in the house, then one by one remove the main fuse or switch off breaker and note which don't work with that supply switched off, so you end up with a plan showing which fuse supplies each socket, the same should be done with other circuits, you also need to work out what every switch does, if it supplies a bathroom fan or a light you need to work out what controls what, then you will have an idea what is wrong, if indeed anything is wrong.

On change of occupant an electrical condition report should be done to highlight any errors made by previous occupant, but it would be better to have this done after you have stopped fiddling rather than before, then it will also check you have not done something wrong. I will admit I do change the odd socket without doing full tests, mainly as my son has the test gear, I will swap a double socket of a double socket with USB outlets as well or with a remote control so I can switch it with a remote or internet, but not simply for looks, the decor is not good enough in general to warrant any extras.

 

[winston1]

FCUs are not needed on lighting circuits.

 

[EFLImpudence]

What's a lighting circuit?

 

[winston1]

If you are a sparks and don't know that it is time you found another career.

 

[JohnW2]

If you are a sparks and don't know that it is time you found another career.

In a friend's house, I recently saw a (probably unnecessary) mini-CU which included a 6A circuit which supplied one light, one fan and one shaver socket.

Is that a 'lighting circuit'?

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

It's a lighting circuit with a fan and shaver socket on it in addition to light(s),.

 

[JohnW2]

It's a lighting circuit with a fan and shaver socket on it in addition to light(s),.

What if, hypothetically, the circuit served six fans, six shaver sockets and one light, or some such combination of loads. Would it still be a 'lighting circuit'?

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

If you are a sparks and don't know that it is time you found another career.

Judging by his profile, I think hes happy the way he is

 

[Exinferis]

Thanks for the quick replies!

It don't know much about electrics but I do know that lights and sockets shouldn't be on the same circuit. Get a qualified electrician out. Immediately.

It's been like it for at least the last four years since we moved in so I don't think we're in any immediate danger.

Are the light switches used to switch the sockets? Maybe for bedside lamps?

They may be fed from a lighting circuit from your consumer unit/fuse board, in which case you could fit 5 Amp lighting sockets.

Has one of the cpc's (earths) been chopped out of one of those cables?

Get an electrician to have a look. Don't panic though, your electrics aren't about to combust or kill.

White twin and earth is the same as grey twin and earth, except it's low smoke and zero halogen, or LSOH. Meaning that if it burns it releases less smoke and less dangerous chemicals. Nothing to worry about.

The light switches are for two small wall lights which are also on the circuit. Sorry, I forgot to add them! So it actually goes: 2-gang switched socket --> light switch --> wall light --> wall light --> light switch --> 2-gang switched socket.

There is an earth wire which runs the length of the white cable. When fixing the sockets, I've been adding a length of earth from the plate to the knockout box to ensure they're safe. But the one in the picture is from the existing cable.

Thanks for the info about the cable colour. Years ago I worked as a chippy's mate and so mixed with a few other trades and I remember being told that seeing white cables meant someone had done a bodge job. But that was over 20 years ago and looks like that's no longer the case. Thanks.

It looks like someone has taken a spur off the lighting circuit? Is this on the 32A ring or a 6A MCB?

I honestly don't know. I can't trace the wiring back to... well anywhere to be honest. I think it goes to the switch for the ceiling light, but I'm not 100% sure. The switch for the ceiling light is a 2-gang and also feeds to two florescent tubes fitted underneath the beam where the problem switches are; it's a loft conversion and they've mounted the switch --> switch --> light etc. to the top of the beam, so there's a whole mess 'o' wires under the beam! It's difficult to see what leads to where.

There are some basic rules, the supply should be split into circuits, and lights should be protected by a 16 amp overload device or less, and cables should be protected by an overload device which will under normal circumstances stop the cable being overloaded.

However there is nothing to stop us taking power from lighting or lighting from power as long as the above basic rules are met, and it is unlikely to cause danger for example by plunging one into darkness.

So using fused connection units (FCU) to supply lights from sockets, or supplying an odd fan or shaver socket from the lights is not wrong. Although it is frowned upon to fit 13A sockets to a lighting circuit it is not really that bad when those sockets are used to power lights, what we did do was fit 5 amp sockets to the lighting circuit to supply standard lamps and table lamps, however with so many lamps having walmart transformer plugs it has been required to use 13A to support them.

In an ideal world you should not have 13A sockets on lighting, and if you did at least you should have a label lighting only. However what you show may need a label but there is nothing one could say is wrong from your description other than maybe lack of labels.

So what you need to do it make a plan of every socket in the house, then one by one remove the main fuse or switch off breaker and note which don't work with that supply switched off, so you end up with a plan showing which fuse supplies each socket, the same should be done with other circuits, you also need to work out what every switch does, if it supplies a bathroom fan or a light you need to work out what controls what, then you will have an idea what is wrong, if indeed anything is wrong.

On change of occupant an electrical condition report should be done to highlight any errors made by previous occupant, but it would be better to have this done after you have stopped fiddling rather than before, then it will also check you have not done something wrong. I will admit I do change the odd socket without doing full tests, mainly as my son has the test gear, I will swap a double socket of a double socket with USB outlets as well or with a remote control so I can switch it with a remote or internet, but not simply for looks, the decor is not good enough in general to warrant any extras.

Thank you for all this information. I think, though, that this is too big of a job for me! As I said, this was done by the previous occupant and I have no real idea what he's done.

I appreciate all the replies but I have just one more question: why is the black (N) looped like that? I've never seen that before. It's what threw me.

 

[EFLImpudence]

If you are a sparks and don't know that it is time you found another career.

Would you care to answer?

 

[flameport]

I remember being told that seeing white cables meant someone had done a bodge job.

That's not quite correct, but not entirely untrue either.

White cables were previously normal PVC, as were the grey ones. LSOH not being an option or even considered.
Generally white cables were those sold in DIY type outlets, grey from proper electrical suppliers.
There was also some truth in that grey cables were only available in the North, and white in the South.
Therefore it's certainly possible that the presence of white cables could mean DIY bodgery and grey was a professional installation.
Of course there are plenty of DIY persons who do a good job, and equally those 'professional electricians' who are nothing of the sort.