But, if you would like to explain how they DO, then I'm up for a laugh.
Which Intergas Combi Boiler For Flat?
- Thread starter youdontwanttodoitlikethat
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How is a Heatmiser Touch V2 not compliant? Think now Dannyboy. It is best you reply "I don't really know". Stop making things up.
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It's only ErP Class 1 as a standalone unit. Minimum requirement for new installations is ErP Class IV
For those un-aware of the classes of controls for heating systems. I highlighted the bit in the last paragraph
Class I
On/off Room Thermostat: A room thermostat that controls the on/off operation of a heater. Performance parameters, including switching differential and room temperature control accuracy are determined by the thermostat’s mechanical construction. Package/system space heating uplift = 1%
Class II
Weather compensator control, for use with modulating heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the set point of the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 2%
Class III
Weather compensator control, for use with on/off output heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the set point of the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. Heater flow temperature is varied by controlling the on/off operation of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 1.5%
Class IV
TPI room thermostat, for use with on/off output heaters: An electronic room thermostat that controls both thermostat cycle rate and in-cycle on/off ratio of the heater proportional to room temperature. TPI control strategy reduces mean water temperature, improves room temperature control accuracy and enhances system efficiency. Package/system space heating uplift = 2%
Class V
Modulating room thermostat, for use with modulating heaters: An electronic room thermostat that varies the flow temperature of the water leaving the heater dependent upon measured room temperature deviation from room thermostat set point. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 3%
Class VI
Weather compensator and room sensor, for use with modulating heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. A room temperature sensor monitors room temperature and adjusts the compensation curve parallel displacement to improve room comfort. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 4%
Class VII
Weather compensator and room sensor, for use with on/off output heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon prevailing outside temperature and adjusts the compensation curve parallel displacement to improve room comfort. Heater flow temperature is varied by controlling the on/off operation of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 3.5%
Class VIII
Multi-sensor room temperature control, for use with modulating heaters: An electronic control, equipped with three or more room sensors that varies the flow temperature of the water leaving the heater dependent upon the aggregated measured room temperature deviation from room sensor set points. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 5%
The addition of even simple controls to a heating system can provide homeowners with reduced energy and costs while offering installers a business opportunity to sell controls with a new boiler. If everyone understands how controls can help energy performance ratings and can demonstrate these savings, it is easier to pass on the benefits.
Class I
On/off Room Thermostat: A room thermostat that controls the on/off operation of a heater. Performance parameters, including switching differential and room temperature control accuracy are determined by the thermostat’s mechanical construction. Package/system space heating uplift = 1%
Class II
Weather compensator control, for use with modulating heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the set point of the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 2%
Class III
Weather compensator control, for use with on/off output heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the set point of the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. Heater flow temperature is varied by controlling the on/off operation of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 1.5%
Class IV
TPI room thermostat, for use with on/off output heaters: An electronic room thermostat that controls both thermostat cycle rate and in-cycle on/off ratio of the heater proportional to room temperature. TPI control strategy reduces mean water temperature, improves room temperature control accuracy and enhances system efficiency. Package/system space heating uplift = 2%
Class V
Modulating room thermostat, for use with modulating heaters: An electronic room thermostat that varies the flow temperature of the water leaving the heater dependent upon measured room temperature deviation from room thermostat set point. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 3%
Class VI
Weather compensator and room sensor, for use with modulating heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. A room temperature sensor monitors room temperature and adjusts the compensation curve parallel displacement to improve room comfort. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 4%
Class VII
Weather compensator and room sensor, for use with on/off output heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon prevailing outside temperature and adjusts the compensation curve parallel displacement to improve room comfort. Heater flow temperature is varied by controlling the on/off operation of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 3.5%
Class VIII
Multi-sensor room temperature control, for use with modulating heaters: An electronic control, equipped with three or more room sensors that varies the flow temperature of the water leaving the heater dependent upon the aggregated measured room temperature deviation from room sensor set points. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater. Package/system space heating uplift = 5%
The addition of even simple controls to a heating system can provide homeowners with reduced energy and costs while offering installers a business opportunity to sell controls with a new boiler. If everyone understands how controls can help energy performance ratings and can demonstrate these savings, it is easier to pass on the benefits.
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Actually I would've recommended an ECO with a plumb centre Honeywell knock off stat that costs £53, binds directly to the board in the boiler so the whole install only needs to be connected to LNE if they didn't want internet control
That will give them compensated and modulating control over the boiler so fully boiler plus compliant and much cheaper than a heat miser
Oh and opentherm isn't a type of thermostat it's a communications protocol.....
That will give them compensated and modulating control over the boiler so fully boiler plus compliant and much cheaper than a heat miser
Oh and opentherm isn't a type of thermostat it's a communications protocol.....
as posted in http://phpionline.co.uk/feature-articles/erp-control-classes/
from the original article by Neil Gaffney in page 41 of https://issuu.com/karenmcavoypublishing/docs/ph_68
Over complicated and over priced control "systems" can be a significant profit generator while providing little if any benefit to the home owner.
Class VIII gives ( it is claimed ) an increase of 5% in the efficiency of the whole system....
@bernardgreen do you even read what's posted or is your own ego blinding you?
What's complicated about a system that needs a boiler and a thermostat that connects directly to it by RF so no wiring, boxes on the wall or anything
The thermostat does all the clever stuff the user just tells it what temp it wants and it communicates with the boiler to make it happen
And it costs slightly over £50
So not complicated to install or use far from overpriced and proves your post is garbage as usual.
Btw have you heard of boiler plus? For combi boilers energy saving controls are not optional....
What's complicated about a system that needs a boiler and a thermostat that connects directly to it by RF so no wiring, boxes on the wall or anything
The thermostat does all the clever stuff the user just tells it what temp it wants and it communicates with the boiler to make it happen
And it costs slightly over £50
So not complicated to install or use far from overpriced and proves your post is garbage as usual.
Btw have you heard of boiler plus? For combi boilers energy saving controls are not optional....
Heatmiser Touch V2:
ErP Class & Ratings
Multi Room Control with Individual Boiler Interlock
I (1%) Class VIII (5%)
https://www.heatmisershop.co.uk/pro...Clhy7vcxAezNuf3p9C_fsGcCWWe_k3y4aAryiEALw_wcBErP Class & Ratings
Multi Room Control with Individual Boiler Interlock
I (1%) Class VIII (5%)
You can buy it for £43.
https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/heatmiser-touchscreen-thermostat/
The OpenTherm protocol enables the burner to be modulated to the dictates of the room temperature sensor. However, few boilers provide the OpenTherm protocol. In a 2 bed flat this function offers not much at all. Many boilers drop the flow temperature to the dictates of the return pipe temperature anyhow. They monitor the flow and return and know when the house is near to temperature modulating down. The room stat just does the final switch off when setpoint is reached.
I just specified a Heatmiser Touch V2 with a combi with OpenTherm. Why? Because the Touch V2 is easy to use when set to thermostat only mode (they have the choice of using the timeclock on the combi or in the Touch V2). And, they have underfloor electric heating in the bathroom controlled by a Heatmiser neo Stat-e. The two stats/timers are similar to operate for the user. The user then does not have to get their heads around how two thermostats work.
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Fantastic! Dannyboy came in. Look at the extras that can be fitted to the Touch V2.
to Razor900
I was agreeing with you that your suggestion was better and cheaper than a heat miser system.
From the installer's point of view of it is very simple and that simplictiy is a benefit to both installer and customer.
and the reason for that is because the kW rating of the combi has to be high enough to produce adequate flow and temperature of domestic hot water and then be capable of reducing it's kW output to central heating down to the level required to keep the house warm.
It is not difficult to design a boiler that could run efficiently at both 40 kW for DHW and at 1 kW for central heating. The design however would be expensive to produce and complicated to service. It would almost certainly require a variable geometry burner and/or combustion chamber.
I was agreeing with you that your suggestion was better and cheaper than a heat miser system.
From the installer's point of view of it is very simple and that simplictiy is a benefit to both installer and customer.
and the reason for that is because the kW rating of the combi has to be high enough to produce adequate flow and temperature of domestic hot water and then be capable of reducing it's kW output to central heating down to the level required to keep the house warm.
It is not difficult to design a boiler that could run efficiently at both 40 kW for DHW and at 1 kW for central heating. The design however would be expensive to produce and complicated to service. It would almost certainly require a variable geometry burner and/or combustion chamber.
To be precise the OpenTherm protocol enables the thermostat to send data ( commands and parameters ) to the boiler. The programming of the processor in the boiler's control system determines how the boiler reacts to a combination of the data from the thermostat and the data from the boiler's own sensors.
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