Winstons rubbish

[SUNRAY]

To the moderators: Please feel free to remove this thread if deemed inappropriate.

Yet again Winston adds irrelevant and unhelpful advice.
It doesn't matter if someone describes it as a ring.

It is neither irreverent or unhelpful.
The OP should learn the correct terms.

irreverent = showing a lack of respect for people or things that are generally taken seriously

Looks like Winston may have lost his L plate

Yet again Winston has made this same alteration whilst quoting others posts.
I think Winston either doesn't know what the words mean or his spelling is bad or he it trying to make corrections where corrections are not needed.

Either way please stop misquoting other peoples words, it doesn't do anyone any favours. In particular the OP in a thread who comes here for serious advice.

Additionally your irrelevant replies go some way to scaring posters off before a sensible solution is found, possibly with the result that a safe solution to their problem is not found.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Typical example of a question that would, for some reason, not be corrected by people here who think DIYers should be left to wallow in their misunderstanding.

"I am replacing a light socket and want to know whether the neutral cable goes in L1 or L2".


I agree Winston is too curt in his corrections but it has got to the stage when even when he is right condemnations of his posts give the impression to DIYers that he is wrong when this is not the case.

 

[ericmark]

English is a changing language, it has never been static, so words over time do change their meaning, so a ring is something which encloses some think it does not need to be round or be continuous a boxing ring is clearly not round and the whole idea of a supply ring is that a section can be isolated to work on it, the electrical ring final is an odd one out, in that case it should not be split, which is why it is so important to call it a ring final and not just a ring, the ring final completes a circuit, a circuit is were it is complete, you refer to completing a circuit, however since the current does not travel around the ring final but from one origin to many supply points, it is not really a circuit.

However thinking English rather than electrical one can see how it gets confusing, it is not the only place where English and electrical jargon don't seem to match, an isolation transformer does not really transform anything, so transformer seems a poor name, however clearly an electronic transformer does transform however it also regulates so as with the final with ring final the electronic with electronic transformer is important.

If this forum was called electrician's talk as with another well known forum, I could see the point in picking up on technical points, however it is called DIYnot so unless it is made clear not DIY then we should gloss over wrong use of words.

 

[SUNRAY]

Typical example of a question that would, for some reason, not be corrected by people here who think DIYers should be left to wallow in their misunderstanding.

"I am replacing a light socket and want to know whether the neutral cable goes in L1 or L2".


I agree Winston is too curt in his corrections but it has got to the stage when even when he is right condemnations of his posts give the impression to DIYers that he is wrong when this is not the case.

Oh yes I absolutely agree and I've found I'm pulling myself up for doing the same, this is why I have made the positive comments about Winston when he's made correct or sensible posts.

If he'd made a positive contribution to the thread and included the ring/radial fact it would be a completely different matter.

Your 'neutral' comment is probably more important than Winstons ring old chestnut.

 

[bernardgreen]

then we should gloss over wrong use of words.

We should NOT gloss over the wrong use of words, instead we should explain clearly to the OP which are the correct words to use.

Educate rather than instruct.

 

[SUNRAY]

I will ask again. When unhelpful posts are made, please use the alert moderator button so we can remove them as soon as possible.

No one has alerted us to the post this thread relates to. Since I have seen this thread, I have removed the offending posts, banned winston1 from replying any further to that thread, and added more warning points to their account, which may ultimately lead to the permanent banning of this account.

Hi Mod8.
I thought I had reported, I guess I didn't complete it.

Thank you for attention.

 

[EFLImpudence]

We should NOT gloss over the wrong use of words, instead we should explain clearly to the OP which are the correct words to use.

Educate rather than instruct.

Exactly - but some say it does not matter as long as you know what is meant.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Your 'neutral' comment is probably more important than Winstons ring old chestnut.

So - I presume you would 'educate' the poster regarding what a Neutral is.

What about the use of socket for switch and cable for wire/conductor?

 

[SUNRAY]

So - I presume you would 'educate' the poster regarding what a Neutral is.

I will offer advice which I believe will be appropriate and helpful.

What about the use of socket for switch and cable for wire/conductor?

I'll use the correct terms but the use of 'cable' and 'wire' seem to be so heavily misused by so many qualified electricians that I think I'd be banging my head against a brick wall, especially when it comes to singles & tri-rated.

 

[john4703]

A thread like this makes me think back with fond memories of BAS
How long is it since he left?

 

[SUNRAY]

I'll use the correct terms but the use of 'cable' and 'wire' seem to be so heavily misused by so many qualified electricians that I think I'd be banging my head against a brick wall, especially when it comes to singles & tri-rated.

In fact I'll go further and add that even the manufacturers get wire and cable mixed up, the classic being tri-rated cable which is quite clearly wire as it's single.
However IIRC cable refers to multiple strands of wire or fibre and as such any flexible wire [with multiple strands] could realistically be called cable.

 

[SUNRAY]

A thread like this makes me think back with fond memories of BAS
How long is it since he left?

Except that BAS would [like Winston] start posting in, and spoiling, another thread.

 

[JohnW2]

Exactly - but some say it does not matter as long as you know what is meant.

When that is considered appropriate, I would suggest that the sensible and polite approach is along the lines of "We know what you mean but, for future reference .... " - and I would certainly say that sarcastic or 'innuendo' responses (which will often not be understood by the recipient) are a very bad way to do it.

We should NOT gloss over the wrong use of words, instead we should explain clearly to the OP which are the correct words to use. .... Educate rather than instruct.

Education is always better than instruction. However, it is perhaps worth remembering that, particularly when changes occur, the 'correct words' are, in fact, often words that are imposed by 'the few' on 'the many', often with little (sometimes even detrimental) reason.

In a good few fields, 'common usage' by the vast majority of the population differs from 'correct usage' by a tiny proportion of the population - so one has to ask about how best to facilitate effective communication (which is, after all, what language/words is all about). A very striking example is medicine. A high proportion of 'correct' technical medical vocabulary is complicated and unfamiliar to the great majority of the general population. If doctors and other healthcare professionals felt the need to 'educate' every time 'correct' medical terminology was not used by patients, they would spend more of their time trying to 'educate' than treating the patients!

I would also suggest that, as is the case in many fields (whether medicine, electrics or whatever), there is no reason why 'the few' who work within the field should not use ('amongst themselves') technical terminology/vocabulary/jargon which differs from that used by 'the many' of the general population. When this is the case, the important thing is that, in order to facilitate effective communication, 'the few' should be conversant with, and understand, the language used by the many - the converse is not necessary (and, in some fields, not really practical/realistic).

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

However IIRC cable refers to multiple strands of wire or fibre and as such any flexible wire [with multiple strands] could realistically be called cable.

That's an example of where 'correct' terminology has (at least, in terms of dictionary definitions) evolved to adapt to changing times. Whilst, as I understand it, 'cables' were, originally, multi-stranded 'ropes' (of any material), not only have dictionaries come to recognise the existence of 'electrical cables' but many/most now have definitions which would include a solid insulated electrical conductor, including singles.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

That's an example of where 'correct' terminology has (at least, in terms of dictionary definitions) evolved to adapt to changing times. Whilst, as I understand it, 'cables' were, originally, multi-stranded 'ropes' (of any material), not only have dictionaries come to recognise the existence of 'electrical cables' but many/most now have definitions which would include a solid insulated electrical conductor, including singles.

Kind Regards, John

Which very eloquently takes us straight back to post #2 where Eric describes English as an evolving language.

I've just googled 'cable' and wikipedia has some interesting ideas, some I don't agree with but it gives a good idea of current thinking.