Wooden Wall Light....no earth

[martygturner]

Just because it’s been done doesn’t mean it’s right or safe, right?

Following a precedent blindly ishow mistakes get repeated.

Shouldnt we demand better?

Who actually takes responsibility when "just as good" isn’t good enough?

Us or them?

get off that tiny horse and go a play with you German standard DIN rail

 

[Jurassicspark]

We already do have have done for just over 170 years... what on earth do you think happens when you are extradited for a crime in a different nation ? We are dealing with products not a legal system, products can be tested, legality is a matter of opinion.

That’s why we should test here and not just assume others rules are flawless. Trust isn’t given it’s earned through evidence and verification and that comes through from testing.

And don't twist my words I said "just as good" not "good enough". I did'nt realise you were a manky manipulator but I do now.

Nice try with the insult but unfortunately name calling doesn’t change the facts. If you want to have a serious and rationale discussion drop the childish attacks.

Back to context, just because something is "just as good" doesn’t mean it automatically passes without question especially when public safety is on the line.

You say products can be tested and legality is "a matter of opinion" so why should we just trust foreign standards without proper checks? "just as good" isn’t good enough if it puts people at risk.

If you do really believe "products can be tested" means we should simply trust foreign bureaucrats without our own checks then you’re ignoring the whole point of sovereignty and responsibility.

 

[Jurassicspark]

get off that tiny horse and go a play with you German standard DIN rail

So go ahead and flaunt your german rails but don’t pretend that blindly relying on foreign standards is anything other than a risky shortcut.

If you think that’s good enough then maybe youre the one who needs to get off your high horse and start thinking about real accountability.

 

[martygturner]

So go ahead and flaunt your german rails but don’t pretend that blindly relying on foreign standards is anything other than a risky shortcut.

If you think that’s good enough then maybe youre the one who needs to get off your high horse and start thinking about real accountability.

You seemed to have missed Brexit... when we copied all those foreign standards directly onto our statute book wholesale in an afternoon.... and we carry on doing so , so we can trade with the rest of the world... there is no such thing as a British standard in reality its just a made up thing to fool the stupid.

 

[Jurassicspark]

You seemed to have missed Brexit... when we copied all those foreign standards directly onto our statute book wholesale in an afternoon.... and we carry on doing so , so we can trade with the rest of the world... there is no such thing as a British standard in reality its just a made up thing to fool the stupid.

Well thanks for finally replying in a normal straightforward way.

If British standards are just "made up" to fool people what evidence do we have that foreign standards are any better or safer?

 

[martygturner]

Well thanks for finally replying in a normal straightforward way.

If British standards are just "made up" to fool people what evidence do we have that foreign standards are any better or safer?

None just the same way our certificates of conformity rpovide little in the way of reassurance, you do understand that we got rid of type testing some 17 years ago and now rely on manufactures to ensure that their products conform so the only issue is one of trust and unless we start wholesale testing again we are reliant on trusting manufactures statements... from the top of my head British manufactures that have sold products that failed to conform...Boots sunglasses and eye ware, Hotpoint tumble dryers - a big one there, MK sockets, Waitrose and Pret a Monger - contaminated food, South west water - water not fit for consumption

We now live in a world of standards and if we have agreed that a foreign standard is as good as ours then that's it... the key question as testing has now been passed to the consumer is can the product be traced and removed from supply and be effectively recalled.

 

[morqthana]

No we are just agreeing that their standards are as good as ours.... what on earth makes you think ours are any better than somebody else's.

It was a comment on the irony of the objectives of the Brexit loonies, banging on about "sovereignty", and "taking back control", and "faceless bureaucrats in Brussels".

 

[Jurassicspark]

None just the same way our certificates of conformity rpovide little in the way of reassurance, you do understand that we got rid of type testing some 17 years ago and now rely on manufactures to ensure that their products conform so the only issue is one of trust and unless we start wholesale testing again we are reliant on trusting manufactures statements... from the top of my head British manufactures that have sold products that failed to conform...Boots sunglasses and eye ware, Hotpoint tumble dryers - a big one there, MK sockets, Waitrose and Pret a Monger - contaminated food, South west water - water not fit for consumption

We now live in a world of standards and if we have agreed that a foreign standard is as good as ours then that's it... the key question as testing has now been passed to the consumer is can the product be traced and removed from supply and be effectively recalled.

Ok you're saying both British and foreign standards are unreliable and now we just hope manufacturers tell the truth because we stopped real testing 17 years ago? If that’s the case then the problem isn’t where the standard comes from it’s that we’ve gutted the system of actual enforcement. Trusting self certification from companies with a financial interest is not a system it’s wishful thinking.

And as for tracing and recalling dangerous products why is that acceptable after the damage is done? Shouldn’t the focus be on prevention and not cleanup?

If we already know that major uk companies have failed to meet safety standards then what exactly makes the foreign declarations of "just as good" any less risky without proper testing?

 

[martygturner]

Ok you're saying both British and foreign standards are unreliable and now we just hope manufacturers tell the truth because we stopped real testing 17 years ago? If that’s the case then the problem isn’t where the standard comes from it’s that we’ve gutted the system of actual enforcement. Trusting self certification from companies with a financial interest is not a system it’s wishful thinking.

And as for tracing and recalling dangerous products why is that acceptable after the damage is done? Shouldn’t the focus be on prevention and not cleanup?

If we already know that major uk companies have failed to meet safety standards then what exactly makes the foreign declarations of "just as good" any less risky without proper testing?

Welcome to the world of standards and conformity, if a foreign standard is as good as ours what makes it any more inherently dangerous or safer than ours - absolutely nothing... if the manufacturer says its good to go, it is.

and to close the loop what makes that wooden light fitting perfectly safe according to our magnificent British standards... that bit of white insulation tube with the tails poking out .... as the final connection is not contained within the fixture.... hence its class 2. See all the other shonky metal light fittings that use that to claim class 2.

I am surprised that you don't as a sparky make a fuss to the IET, they are the ones that say manufactures instructions are king and gave up on what could or could not be fitted... can you remember when they started buck passing...when did they dip out of the responsibility loop... probably about the time when sparkies had to start notifying work and self certifying to the building control and gain loads of somewhat dubious qualifications to appear they were compliant with a standard that is (read these forums) dimly understood.

See Torque screwdrivers - a manufacture state that incomers must be torqued to 2.5Nm using a tool that is only +/- accurate to 6% on the day it was made.... so is it 2.5Nm or 2.35nm or 2.65nm but the IET clearly states that you must follow manufactures instructions. Personally I think its far safer to go hand tight , jiggle + a half turn... but get the click and all's well in IET land.

Or mixed MCB's - all MCB have to conform to a operating temperature and trip curve, they are all made to exactly the same standard IEC 60898 ( notice that's an international standard) but here comes the IET...only mcb's from the consumer unit manufacturer must be used... why they all conform don't they ?, should they not be telling you if they don't oh hang on that would involve them in determining that something was safe or not... here comes the buck passing.

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