Yes, and for the same reason that subsequent high rise buildings covered with the same insulation as Grenfell are only being evacuated now.
High Rise Fire
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The Fire Brigade did not "get it wrong". In a safe high rise the advice to stay inside the containment of a flat is the best advice. The people who got it wrong were those involved in clidding the building with highly flammable material and replaced the windows that were fire resistant with windows that melted. If the cladding had not been ignited then most residents would have been un-aware that there had been a fire in a flat. I have friends who live for many years in a high rise in which there were several fire all of which were contained within the flat where the fire started,
Evidently, it was not "safe".
The building was almost certainly safe when built. The "modernisation" and "improvements" made it potentially unsafe.
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I agree that saying put is the standard advice. However, the standard advice was based on a "typical" block fire (contained internally, to some degree).
given that the building was evidently not safe then (lit from top to bottom), and not a typical block fire, will that standard advice change, when the situation not longer applies?
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Doggit
The reasoning is that, as fires can normally be contained in one flat, there's no need to evacuate the whole block, so no point sounding a tower wide alarm. But it does beg the question of why the fire alarm didn't go off on the fourth floor in the Grenfell fire.
The rest of your comments are emminently sensible.
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Doggit
Of the 600 clad tower blocks, they've found 27 that have flammable panels.
Of course they got it wrong. The fire chiefs stood scratching themselves watching the flames spread up the building and never told the people to get out.
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Doggit
Absolutely correct, but if the circumstances change, then the procedure and actions need to change as well, but they didn't. No circumstances can be guaranteed to be the same each time, and a good comander will react accordingly. In the Lakanal fire in 2009, the Fire Brigade were criticised because they didn't evacute people earlier, and the report into the fire stated that it was those who followed the advice to stay put that dies, and those who ignored it who survived.
So whilst the councile or whoever were negligent in not learning from the Lakanel fire, I think the fire brigade were even more negligent, because they are the ones should have got the people out after the fire went out of control.
In some large office buildings, a Fire Alarm System is a must , and weekly tests are also carried out and every now and again, evacuation drills are also carried out regularly, if at anytime a fire alarm system develops a serious fault, or serious faults are discovered upon testing, the whole building is prohibited from being occupied, workers are then not permitted to occupy that building, and are sent home until the alarm is sorted out. Not only that regular standby tests are also conducted on back power, where it is suppose to be for 72 hours with enough battery reserve to set alarms off for 30 minutes.
The importance of a fire Alarm in larger buildings is that where a fire cannot be contained, or becomes out of control, Fire men cannot knock on everyone's door and ask them to leave and this could take hours, there could also be language barrier, hence why a two stage fire alarm, where first stage is an alert signal (short series of beeps) given for everyone to be on their guard and be ready to leave if they then hear the stage two alarm (yodelling siren ) then everyone must evacuate the building at once.
As for all those people asked or forced to leave, many have not been able to sleep for many hours as no place has been organised for them, some sleeping on chairs, with their pets, and what about their daily needs and food? they have no kitchens and can't even have their tea! Camden council has created total shambles, unorganised, this in itself creates a risk of people losing their lives in this mayhem! in particular older and frail people, and this is going to last for weeks! Complete night mare! Its now been declared as a national emergency!
The importance of a fire Alarm in larger buildings is that where a fire cannot be contained, or becomes out of control, Fire men cannot knock on everyone's door and ask them to leave and this could take hours, there could also be language barrier, hence why a two stage fire alarm, where first stage is an alert signal (short series of beeps) given for everyone to be on their guard and be ready to leave if they then hear the stage two alarm (yodelling siren ) then everyone must evacuate the building at once.
As for all those people asked or forced to leave, many have not been able to sleep for many hours as no place has been organised for them, some sleeping on chairs, with their pets, and what about their daily needs and food? they have no kitchens and can't even have their tea! Camden council has created total shambles, unorganised, this in itself creates a risk of people losing their lives in this mayhem! in particular older and frail people, and this is going to last for weeks! Complete night mare! Its now been declared as a national emergency!
I don't think they stood and watched.
How many minutes was it from the first signs of fire in the cladding between 4th and 5th floors and it becoming obviously out of control ? Most of the fire fighters not tasked with fire fighting went into the building as soon as they saw it was floor jumping to get people out.
He'll be at Glastonbury, probably.
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Doggit
Why do you continue with this Bernard. You've seen the report of the Lanakal tower fire, and the critisim of the Fire Brigade. It actually took several hours for the fire to get to the top and around the whole block, and many people that did get out, told of phoning 999 time and time again, and being given the same advice - stay in your flat.
The fire was put out on the 4th floor, and then the fire fighters realsied it had gone outside. From that point, they should have protected the stair well, and sent people up to each floor, and cleared the tenants out, but they didn't.
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