Quality PAT testing.

[securespark]

with every top you get a free bottom......

All this talk of tops and bottoms is getting me quite excited....

 

[crystal ball]

oooh matron

 

[danechip]

Washing machine often on wheels

I have never seen one, ever. They have enough trouble staying put on a fast spin as it is. My mum used to hold her new machine down to stop it running across the kitchen until she went out and came back to a flooded downstairs after ripping itself loose from the hoses (remember the hot and cold feeds ?)

Yes. Transit bolts....

 

[bernardgreen]

remember the hot and cold feeds ?)

My Dyson has hot and cold feed, and wheels with a brake. Purple handle uner the machine, pull the lever out and the the machine rolls in and out.

 

[ericmark]

Yes I remember the old Bendix washing machine

that was bolted to the floor, but things have moved on.

 

[SUNRAY]

I don't think you folks are paying enough attention ...


Kind Regards, John

Am I really the only one that remembers green, purple and orange fuses? I don't remember the rating other than orange = 10A, Strand Junior 8 fuses will be engraved on my brain forever.

That's because only 3A and 13A are standard (or preferred) ratings.

They may be now but I think that was not always the case. I recall the card on the side of the 'plug rack' in the hardware shop with every size of plug and fuse on display with the maximum load in Amps, Watts and HP. I recall the 5A being 1 6/10 HP and asking my father what it meant.

As you know the fuse is to protect the cable not what is on the end of it.

This may be so according to the regs but MI's will often state the size of the plugs fuse as part of the appliance protection and that should be considered when performing a PAT as it may be different to the expected fuse.
On oh so many occassions I've encountered the MI require a 7A fuse for a 1.5KW appliance on 0.75mm² flex (for example) with no additional protection built in and of course the plug will contain a fuse big enough to power 2 of them.
If the MI states a certain size of fuse, using anything else could invalidate any warranty and possibly be the cause of a much bigger problem.

Many of the people I work with use the words Pat, Patted, Patting etc without the followinng 'testing'.

 

[JohnW2]

Am I really the only one that remembers green, purple and orange fuses? I don't remember the rating other than orange = 10A, Strand Junior 8 fuses will be engraved on my brain forever.

No, you're not alone in those memories; in fact, I think that I probably still have some in those colours! However, they don't appear to be mentioned in the 'current' version of BS 1362 - but (unless I'm missing something) that 'current' version appears to date from 1973, so maybe we are both giving away our ages!

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

[QUOTE="SUNRAY, post: 4452298, member: 124249

If the MI states a certain size of fuse, using anything else could invalidate any warranty and possibly be the cause of a much bigger problem.

[/QUOTE]

How can yet another example of incorrect MI invalidate the warranty? Suppose the customer has 15 amp BS 546 sockets. Is he not allowed to fit the correct unfused plug for his situation?

 

[333rocky333]

I recall the 5A being 1 6/10 HP and asking my father what it meant.

.

Still to this day dont understand HP

 

[ericmark]

[QUOTE="SUNRAY, post: 4452298, member: 124249

If the MI states a certain size of fuse, using anything else could invalidate any warranty and possibly be the cause of a much bigger problem.

How can yet another example of incorrect MI invalidate the warranty? Suppose the customer has 15 amp BS 546 sockets. Is he not allowed to fit the correct unfused plug for his situation?[/QUOTE]
Until Brexit yes, all appliances must be made so they can be used in any member state, so if it needs a fuse, it needs to be in the appliance, however this was not always the case, you can get 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 10 and 13 amp fuses clearly you don't need that range to protect the cable, and although putting a 13A fuse in may not cause a danger, using a 7A may save the appliance should a motor stall.

And with a 16 amp radial having correct size fuse for the appliance can mean fuse goes before the MCB so other items from same radial continue to work, same applies to a 13 amp fused spur, so there is still a good reason to fit appropriate fuse sizes.

I would agree in some cases no point, a bathroom fans winding will likely take less than 1 amp to burn it out, so no real point in fitting a fuse to protect motor as you can get one small enough.

Although an appliance which is portable has to have any fuse built in, where the appliance is fixed the manufacturer can stipulate external protection, be it a RCD, or a semi conductor fuse, it is clearly possible with units which are inaccessible with ease, that the protection is put where it can be accessed, very common to see motor overloads built into the starter rather than the motor, so the cooker hood, shower, oven, immersion heater, and many other items can require fused protection. They are fixed so the protect cable only idea does not apply, so manufacturer can stipulate a 1 amp fuse for a cooker hood even if for ease of maintenance it is plugged in.

This is the problem with inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment, if a hob manufacturer says the hob needs protecting with a 20 amp MCB how does the tester know that? The installer should know, and in the main we replace like for like, but if the 20 amp fails and a 32 amp is fitted on a temporary basis but for what ever reason it's not swapped back, how would the guy testing know, he is unlikely to try reading the data plate and it is also unlikely that it actually states maximum size fuse.

OK 20 amp is unlikely most ovens and hobs are designed to have a 32 amp supply, but seen some stand alone units which need a 45 amp supply, and if swapped for oven and hob, latter you could have an oven which is not safe with a 45 amp supply, but how would the tester know? He would hardly have the time to read the installation instructions.

 

[EFLImpudence]

That's not really the case, though, is it?

If a manufacturer does not fit a fuse when needed then the product is not fit for purpose.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Still to this day dont understand HP

It's taken as equivalent to a 745 Watt horse.

 

[sparkwright]

Am I really the only one that remembers green, purple and orange fuses? I don't remember the rating other than orange = 10A, Strand Junior 8 fuses will be engraved on my brain forever.

They may be now but I think that was not always the case. I recall the card on the side of the 'plug rack' in the hardware shop with every size of plug and fuse on display with the maximum load in Amps, Watts and HP. I recall the 5A being 1 6/10 HP and asking my father what it meant.

This may be so according to the regs but MI's will often state the size of the plugs fuse as part of the appliance protection and that should be considered when performing a PAT as it may be different to the expected fuse.
On oh so many occassions I've encountered the MI require a 7A fuse for a 1.5KW appliance on 0.75mm² flex (for example) with no additional protection built in and of course the plug will contain a fuse big enough to power 2 of them.
If the MI states a certain size of fuse, using anything else could invalidate any warranty and possibly be the cause of a much bigger problem.

Many of the people I work with use the words Pat, Patted, Patting etc without the followinng 'testing'.

I can remember some of those colours on the older fuses. We had a mixed bag of them in the drawer, I seem to remember the ends were prone to coming off easily too.

Was green 1A? That seems to ring a bell. Could be wrong of course.

I was surprised when doing some PAT testing about 20 years ago to see a collection of identical hairdryers with the manufacturers plug already fitted all containing 7amp fuses - you don't see things like that now - it would certainly be a 13amp fuse as everything else tends to be now.

I remember those cards containing fuses from places like Woolworths would have 3, 5 and 13 amp fuses and written details of which size for each appliance - a black and white telly 3amp, and a colour telly 5amp. I always remember that.

 

[ericmark]

Still to this day dont understand HP

I during my apprenticeship had to test motors, at that time no direct read out of watts or horse power, we had the torque and the speed (revs) and we had to work it out and produce a graph for home work, 2πNT/33,000 is ingrained in my memory, seem to remember approx 750 watts in a horse power, but that was days of imperial so today not sure how it is worked out? I worked with poundals, pounds and slugs seem to remember times 32 for each, something to do with gravity, but now we have metric system so every thing times 10³ so there are 980 Oh where is the 10³ in that, or 1024 that's also not 10³ oh I give up, glad I have retired.

 

[mattylad]

In my previous job where we made hot cupboards etc. if we had an appliance that was only a few amp you'd have thought we would have put a smaller than 13a fuse in the plug, one more appropriate for it.
But no, the guy in charge (aged electrician) couldn't be bothered to change it.

I'd give up doing that too Eric, I'd use an app on my phone or not do it lol