Stud wall, Partition wall with plasterboard and noggin

[Jonny Vee]

Hi,

Im doing a bit of renovation and for the first time I have to build few wall including one partywall and a fully enclosed bathroom.

My idea is to use 15mm plasterboard or maybe 2x15mm to make it stronger but question is what stud size need to use and if there is any basic concept to use in terms of structure.

How to fix on the slab below (concrete) and how to fix on the beam ( wood above).

I will also need to install some plywood on these wall to make sure I can hang stuff in the future.

Many Thanks

 

[foxhole]

You can line with 11mm osb to allow fixings.
Standard plasterboard will be fine .You might want to use cement board instead of plasterboard adjacent wet areas .

 

[Jonny Vee]

You can line with 11mm osb to allow fixings.
Standard plasterboard will be fine .You might want to use cement board instead of plasterboard adjacent wet areas .

Planning to fully tile the bathroom. Believe plasterboard should be fine what you think?

 

[foxhole]

Tiled plasterboard is not waterproof .

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Framing is generally 3 x 2in (70 x44mm) or 4 x 2in (90 x 44mm) softwood stud at 400 or 600mm centres. 400mm gives a stiffer wall. If the wall height exceeds 8ft (2.4m) noggins between the studs are a must to stiffen the wall. Fix to concrete below with 7mm hole, brown plus and something like 5 x 100mm (#10 x 4in) screws, 1 or 2 per bay. Fix to joists above directly using same size screws (may require extra work if the joists run parallel to your wall, but not directly above it). Try to build the frames flat on the floor if you can (same screws) and move them into position before raising them up. Make fairly tight so that minimum packing to the ceiling is needed (done with pairs of wooden "folding" wedges

Minimum PB should be moisture resistant PB. Cement board is a better choice where tiling is to be done as it is stronger and more waterproof. If the intention is to carry any weight on the wall (e.g wash basins, large mirrors, heated towel rails, radiators, etc) then a plywood or OSB pattress (12 or 15mm thick) must be installed either between the studs in the appropriate places (on 2 x 1 slate lath battens) or by facing-off the whole frame of the wall with ply or OSB before the plasterboards or cement boards are fixed.

 

[Jonny Vee]

Framing is generally 3 x 2in (70 x44mm) or 4 x 2in (90 x 44mm) softwood stud at 400 or 600mm centres. 400mm gives a stiffer wall. If the wall height exceeds 8ft (2.4m) noggins between the studs are a must to stiffen the wall. Fix to concrete below with 7mm hole, brown plus and something like 5 x 100mm (#10 x 4in) screws, 1 or 2 per bay. Fix to joists above directly using same size screws (may require extra work if the joists run parallel to your wall, but not directly above it). Try to build the frames flat on the floor if you can (same screws) and move them into position before raising them up. Make fairly tight so that minimum packing to the ceiling is needed (done with pairs of wooden "folding" wedges

Minimum PB should be moisture resistant PB. Cement board is a better choice where tiling is to be done as it is stronger and more waterproof. If the intention is to carry any weight on the wall (e.g wash basins, large mirrors, heated towel rails, radiators, etc) then a plywood or OSB pattress (12 or 15mm thick) must be installed either between the studs in the appropriate places (on 2 x 1 slate lath battens) or by facing-off the whole frame of the wall with ply or OSB before the plasterboard or cement boards are fixed.

Hi, Thanks for your reply.

When you install screw. Do you go directly or make a pre hole smaller?

I agree with cement board and will install that on the bathroom.

Flooring just foubd out is not very strong concrete but something like black solid. Not That strong. How I deal with that? I may need a separated post for this issue. House is 1930 and believe this is what they used in the past.

How do you fix nogging? Do you make a sub frame recessed 15mm with some 30x30mm and screw the plywood into it to make flush with the stud?

While waiting for your advise I managed to get a good Mitre saw to make the cut easier.

Many Thanks for your help

 

[foxhole]

Will leave this to you Job&knock,
Life’s too short.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

When you install screw. Do you go directly or make a pre hole smaller?

With 4.0 to 5.0mm screws I pre-pilot if the timber is dry. Normally on 3 x 2 and 4 x 2 I'd use 5.0 x 90/100mm (#10 x 3-3/4 or 4in) screws. This pre-piloting is basically to avoid splitting, especially near the ends. Pilot holes are smaller, a 5.0mm screw works well with a 4.0mm pilot bit

Flooring would be better dealt with in a separate post, I feel, as it may be bitumen or asphalt

How do you fix nogging? Do you make a sub frame recessed 15mm with some 30x30mm and screw the plywood into it to make flush with the stud?

I think you mean a plywood pattress, surely? Noggins are used to stiffen stud frames.

Basically I use a combi square to mark the set-back (thickness of the plywood) onto the studs, screw some 2 x 1in slate lath (the cheap rough sawn stuff is good enough, use PSE softwood if you are feeling flush) onto the studs (4.0 x 40 to 50mm or #8 x 1-1/2 to 2in screws are OK), then screw through the plywood into the edges of the laths. Cut your pattresses fairly tight to the opening size and make sure the ply doesn't stick out past the face of the frame. Make sure you make the pattresses wide enough to accommodate variation in fitting - a minimum of 400mm wide will accommodate a multitude of (future) signs, radiators often require something deeper to accommodate top and bottom mountings on a single pattress. Pattress can be plywood, but OSB or chipboard work just as well and can be a lot cheaper in 12mm thickness. Keep a drawing or sketch of the locations for future use

 

[Jonny Vee]

With 4.0 to 5.0mm screws I pre-pilot if the timber is dry. Normally on 3 x 2 and 4 x 2 I'd use 5.0 x 90/100mm (#10 x 3-3/4 or 4in) screws. This pre-piloting is basically to avoid splitting, especially near the ends. Pilot holes are smaller, a 5.0mm screw works well with a 4.0mm pilot bit

Flooring would be better dealt with in a separate post, I feel, as it may be bitumen or asphalt


I think you mean a plywood pattress, surely? Noggins are used to stiffen stud frames.

Basically I use a combi square to mark the set-back (thickness of the plywood) onto the studs, screw some 2 x 1in slate lath (the cheap rough sawn stuff is good enough, use PSE softwood if you are feeling flush) onto the studs (4.0 x 40 to 50mm or #8 x 1-1/2 to 2in screws are OK), then screw through the plywood into the edges of the laths. Cut your pattresses fairly tight to the opening size and make sure the ply doesn't stick out past the face of the frame. Make sure you make the pattresses wide enough to accommodate variation in fitting - a minimum of 400mm wide will accommodate a multitude of (future) signs, radiators often require something deeper to accommodate top and bottom mountings on a single pattress. Pattress can be plywood, but OSB or chipboard work just as well and can be a lot cheaper in 12mm thickness. Keep a drawing or sketch of the locations for future use

Thanks

 

[Jonny Vee]

Following my queries on how to build a new wall, I have also found myself replacing the old slate and plaster with new boards.

I cleaned up the old stuff and uncovered the studs. Got few questions:

1) Can I make the wall stronger adding some horizontal stiffness between the studs? and how?
2) When installing new plasterboard as the room is 2500mm ceiling height and board is only 2400mm, Where I have to join them ( top or bottom ) and how small can the remaining board? Do I have to cut at 2200mm and add a 300mm piece?
3) Deflection? Do I have to leave some gap on the floor? Do I have to leave some gap on the ceiling
4) What are the best screw for wood installation? Size/lengths and material
5) Do you usually hang ceiling or wall first?
6) Plasterboard brand and type. I would use a 15mm for wall to make it more sturdy and 12.5mm for ceiling. What brand you suggest and what model.

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 174758]

1) You can stiffen a stud wall to an extent by adding noggins between the studs
2) Because almost all generally available PB sheets are metric (I.e 2400 x 1200 not 2440 x 1229, or 8 x 4ft) and old (pre-1980 or so) stud walls are all going to be set out in Imperial measures (as we only metricated in the 1970s) quite probably on 16 or 24 inch centres, you may well need to add laths to the studs to cover the shortfall if using metric boards. Put the gap at the bottom of the wall rather than the top, try to keep your PB rips at 250 to 300mm minimum and remember to leave a gap of 10 to 30mm between the bottom PB and the floor. That is to prevent water wicking into the board and will be covered by the skirting in most cases
3) Ceiling goes in first. Wall boards butt up to it to help carry the edge of the ceiling boards
4) Installing what? PB onto wood? Look for drywall screws, 35 to 45mm, coarse thread
5) See above
6) 12mm will do for domestic. 15mm more common if installing sound block board and in commercial builds. All commercially available brands such as Gypric, Lafarge, etc are much of a muchness IMHO (although I'm a joiner - a dry liner might disagree)

 

[Jonny Vee]

Is this a good timber https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Treated-Kiln-Dried-C16-Timber---45-x-95-x-2400-mm/p/166403

Or would you use another provider and better spec.? Please advise and will buy accordingly.

Thanks

 

[endecotp]

Is this a good timber https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Treated-Kiln-Dried-C16-Timber---45-x-95-x-2400-mm/p/166403

I’d say that’s “standard”, and should be good enough for what you’re doing.

 

[Jonny Vee]

How would you place the stud on a Z space scenario. I have attached a drawing but look like too many studs for me. Please advise where I'm wrong.

Studs are in red color

 

[foxhole]

Nothing wrong with quantity but position of a couple means you have nothing to fix plasterboard too in the internal corners .