Whiteface

[StephenStephen]

I wish we could all relax a little about the possibility that we might possibly have a little racism in us?
I'm clear that I've been brought up in a white racist culture, in which white people continue to see themselves as 'normal' and everyone else as a little wierd, wrong, bad, dangerous, stupid, mad etc. It's subtle, but powerful.
So I have that racism in me - of course I do. ...and it does me no harm to admit it (though it is uncomfortable).

Sadly, we continue to live in a world where white people have a number of (usually unseen) privileges, which leave everyone else more likely to be poorer, to receive worse medical, judicial, employment outcomes. Sadly we live in a country in which simply being black means you're likely to have a shorter life, to put it very bluntly.

So it really doesn't make sense to equate the slight discomfort we might feel at admitting to the racism that exists in and around us, with the ongoing and devastating impact of that racism on so many people.
...and it really doesn't make sense to equate people painting their faces white with people painting their faces black - it just doesn't have the same shaming dehumanising effect. It just doesn't have the same dangerous effect of causing people to seem 'less than', wrong, bad dangerous, stupid, mad etc and so doesn't lead to the ongoing systematic poorer treatment of people.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

And i haven't seen Morris Dancers blacking their faces anyway...what was your point?

The Britannia Morris Men, also known as the Coconutters, perform with blacked faces. It is said that they originated from the mining communities, the blacking being coal dust. They are based in the Lancashire town of Bacup and at Easter travel around all the surrounding towns performing their bizarre dance ritual - they are great. They are much loved and have been going for generations but a few years ago some race baiters decided that they must be stopped. The Coconutters won, the fuss died down and they are still going strong.

 

[Odds]

The Britannia Morris Men, also known as the Coconutters, perform with blacked faces. It is said that they originated from the mining communities, the blacking being coal dust. They are based in the Lancashire town of Bacup and at Easter travel around all the surrounding towns performing their bizarre dance ritual - they are great. They are much loved and have been going for generations but a few years some race baiters decided that they must be stopped. The Coconutters won, the fuss died down and they are still going strong.

Not long after i logged-off i recalled a previous thread where they came up and realised my error...ho hum. Happy to hear the 'nutters still rock.

 

[Lower]

So do you care or don't you care ?

Are you sure it's racially motivated, or is that just you ?

As i previously said, i don't have the slightest problem with the sengalese doing whiteface. I made the point because of the double standards that are being applied with racism being seen where its not.

The current trend is to accept that if someone says something is racist, then it automatically is, and its the automatic acceptance that it is racist that i find offensive.

 

[Odds]

As i previously said, i don't have the slightest problem with the sengalese doing whiteface. I made the point because of the double standards that are being applied with racism being seen where its not.

The current trend is to accept that if someone says something is racist, then it automatically is, and its the automatic acceptance that it is racist that i find offensive.

It is a trend that shows no sign of slowing down...

The Charity Boss at the centre of a royal racism row says she's willing to return to Buckingham Palace to "raise awareness around cultural competency".

The timing of this incident was very convenient for Harry and Meghan as they promote their new Netflix Docudrama which has been found to contain some misleading footage in the trailer.

 

[noseall]

8

double standards that are being applied with racism being seen where its not.

The same logic could be applied to genuine racists.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

As i previously said, i don't have the slightest problem with the sengalese doing whiteface. I made the point because of the double standards that are being applied with racism being seen where its not.

The current trend is to accept that if someone says something is racist, then it automatically is, and its the automatic acceptance that it is racist that i find offensive.

It's you that said it's racist though.

Talk about double standards

 

[Lower]

It's you that said it's racist though.

Talk about double standards

I didn't say it was racist. I said how is whiteface not considered racist and the post was intended to highlight the double standards.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Not long after i logged-off i recalled a previous thread where they came up and realised my error...ho hum. Happy to hear the 'nutters still rock.

The blackened faces represent the blackened faces of colliers. Bacup, whilst at one time well known for slippers and shoes, was also in an area with both extensive stone quarries and coal mines (in fact I believe there is still one privaty owned drift operating - it was certainly still going 5 years back). When I was a kid in the 1950s/60s you'd still see colliers coming off shift black with coal dust because there were no baths at the pit head - on the buses they would be made to crowd onto the platform so as not to dirty the seats. In later life some of these men would have a permanent blue/black pallor because the coal dust had become permanently ingrained in their faces. A couple of my uncles looked like that, something you wouldn't be aware if unless you had connections with deep mine coal working

But despite this the Morris Federation threw the Coconutters out because they refused to lose the black faces that they had worn for more than 100 years. Inverted racism or middle class hyper sensitivity? The 'nutters dance on with invitations to many national and international events every year, but every Easter they still dance the boundaries in Bacup

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The timing of this incident was very convenient for Harry and Meghan as they promote their new Netflix Docudrama which has been found to contain some misleading footage in the trailer.

What, only in the trailer?

 

[Odds]

The blackened faces represent the blackened faces of colliers. Bacup, whilst at one time well known for slippers and shoes, was also in an area with both extensive stone quarries and coal mines (in fact I believe there is still one privaty owned drift operating - it was certainly still going 5 years back). When I was a kid in the 1950s/60s you'd still see colliers coming off shift black with coal dust because there were no baths at the pit head - on the buses they would be made to crowd onto the platform so as not to dirty the seats. In later life some of these men would have a permanent blue/black pallor because the coal dust had become permanently ingrained in their faces. A couple of my uncles looked like that, something you wouldn't be aware if unless you had connections with deep mine coal working

But despite this the Morris Federation threw the Coconutters out because they refused to lose the black faces that they had worn for more than 100 years. Inverted racism or middle class hyper sensitivity? The 'nutters dance on with invitations to many national and international events every year, but every Easter they still dance the boundaries in Bacup

You'd better take it up with them, in that case...

Said to represent a Moorish Pirate; the hat is of a turban style, white & trimmed with either red or blue ribbon alongside blue feathers and a rosette; the black polo neck woollen jumper worn above black velvet knee breeches is finished with white knee length socks and the footwear - originally said to be soft pirates moccasins - is replaced with traditional iron-shod Lancashire clogs, the footwear of the original Lancashire miners, finally ,each dancer has a set of “five nuts” similar to castanets and a white kilt with three horizontal red stripes completes the curious costume.

The Coconutters

 

[albaPhenom]

I wish we could all relax a little about the possibility that we might possibly have a little racism in us?
I'm clear that I've been brought up in a white racist culture, in which white people continue to see themselves as 'normal' and everyone else as a little wierd, wrong, bad, dangerous, stupid, mad etc. It's subtle, but powerful.
So I have that racism in me - of course I do. ...and it does me no harm to admit it (though it is uncomfortable).

Sadly, we continue to live in a world where white people have a number of (usually unseen) privileges, which leave everyone else more likely to be poorer, to receive worse medical, judicial, employment outcomes. Sadly we live in a country in which simply being black means you're likely to have a shorter life, to put it very bluntly.

So it really doesn't make sense to equate the slight discomfort we might feel at admitting to the racism that exists in and around us, with the ongoing and devastating impact of that racism on so many people.
...and it really doesn't make sense to equate people painting their faces white with people painting their faces black - it just doesn't have the same shaming dehumanising effect. It just doesn't have the same dangerous effect of causing people to seem 'less than', wrong, bad dangerous, stupid, mad etc and so doesn't lead to the ongoing systematic poorer treatment of people.

Mostly wrong across this post in my opinion... you understand what you're attributing to white privilege and white racism is really just "majority privilege" and "majority racism" or do you really believe that different racial groups within their own nations (Senegal for example) don't have the exact same biases?

As for your point about minorities having a shorter life span... can you tell me where you get your info...

Ethnic differences in life expectancy and mortality from selected causes in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Experimental analysis of ethnic differences in life expectancy and cause-specific mortality in England and Wales based on 2011 Census and death registrations.

www.ons.gov.uk

The life expectancy for Scottish white males is 77 btw, the lowest in the UK... and this is propped up by Scotland as a whole, if we look only at Glasgow (the most populous city in Scotland), the issue is far worse.

As for your point about wealth, employment and pay grades... the idea that everyone else is left poor than the white population of the UK is just flat out wrong on every possible metric other than number of unemployed per ethnic group and a big reason for that being that South Asian women are massively over-represented in the unemployment figures due to cultural norms within those groups.

Ethnicity pay gaps in Great Britain - Office for National Statistics

Earnings and employment statistics for different ethnic groups in Great Britain, using regression analysis to provide more insight into factors that affect pay.

www.ons.gov.uk

I know you're trying your absolute best to come across as academic and enlightened but your 2016 Social Justice Warrior redefinition of the word Racism, attempting to box the word in to solely "Institutionalised Racism" in order to justify the racism of non-White groups just simply isn't the accepted definition by the majority of people. Not now, not in the past and no time in the immediate future, despite the links you've posted.

The reason for this is that everyone understands the definition of Racism, on a personal level, which is how we use that word in day to day communication outside of College students in Intersectionality courses. As for "Institutional racism" or "structural racism", well, we have terms for those... and they are "Institutional racism" or "structural racism".

This attempt by people in Grievance Studies course to redefine words is so transparent.

Now, if we're talking about solely black people (as in African/Caribbean descent) then I might agree on some of this... there are definitely wide disparities in employment, crime rates, prison sentence lengths, some health issues, poverty, etc etc... there are strong arguments that this is due to historical inequality and a sort of unconscious bias in the white majority population... and that's where the use of terms like institutional racism are relevant to the discussion.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I didn't say it was racist. I said how is whiteface not considered racist and the post was intended to highlight the double standards.









But why do you consider it racist ?

You are promoting the racism, that's the double standards, because you WANT it to be racist

 

[Lower]

carmanmemoranda[/USER]]
But why do you consider it racist ?
You are promoting the racism, that's the double standards, because you WANT it to be racist

I don't consider it racist. But my whole point is that if the same standards were applied that makes blackface automatically racist, irrespective of intent or malice, whiteface should be considered racist too. Whiteface in this context wasn't considered racist by the media or the activists, hence the double standard.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I don't consider it racist. But my whole point is that if the same standards were applied that makes blackface automatically racist, irrespective of intent or malice, whiteface should be considered racist too. Whiteface in this context wasn't considered racist by the media or the activists, hence the double standard.

Or maybe it was nothing to do with racism, as has been explained previousky.

You are the 1 trying to make it into a racist issue. THAT is the double standards