RAAC

[securespark]

Why would anyone build a building with only 30 years expectancy.

There area few pre-fab houses on Wythenshawe's council estate that were rushed up in the late 40's to tackle the housing shortage, with troops returning home. Some were designed with a lifespan of 10 years in mind. There are only a handful left, but they are still inhabited today.
Other areas of the country have these houses in greater numbers.

 

[Deleted member 294929]

But this thread is.

Before all this was announced my daughters school.had been closed down soon to be knocked down. I was merely stating that 70 odd years in we still have a problem with cheap materials, labour, greed lack of building control.

The said buildings have lasted 50, 60 70 years. It's really not that bad. Who ever is at fault is more than likely dead.

On the other hand not changing the subject thst much.

My daughters school is 3 and bit years old, and it's unsafe due to build quality. So it's to be demolished.
Just because those greedy fùckers up the top wanted more cream and fúçķ the rest of us.

 

[Deleted member 294929]

It is the politicians fault for the choice of materials, the short-termism of politics. Do it now, on the cheap, and someone else can pick up the tab.

But that doesn't excuse the current debacle of closing schools the day before the new term/school year starts.

My daughters got two weeks notice.

 

[Roy Bloom]

I'm talking about mistakes bad judgement and low skill inthe industry that's still happening. Its not just about RAAC. Our building industry is to this day in a shocking state.

This thread is about RAAC and specifically the government failures in use, and funding for maintenance and replacement.
The skill, or lack of it, of the labour force has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

If you want to discuss the degree of skill of the labour force, start a thread of your own choosing and stop trying to hijack this one.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Plus it would have been experimental to a degree, long term it hasn't worked out, if we knew then what we know now.
Pre fabricated concrete panels were considered a wonder when they were first introduced, and asbestos was brilliant.

I'm not aware of any structural collapse in other countries due to the use of RAAC.
It's used extensively in Europe, and Asian countries.
It's a favored material for use in earthquake zones. (And obvioulsy I am not referring to any structural collapses in earthquakes).

 

[Roy Bloom]

I very much doubt the politicians chose the materials!

It’s easy to point the finger decades after any event. And dine out on the fallout.

The politicians set the budgets, and choose the designers, the inspectors, etc.
The governments are the customer, and the customer is responsible for their choices in design, materials, inspections, etc.

Unless you are suggesting that the government were not aware of the design and materials that go into government buildings?
In either case the politicians are responsible for either their choices, or their lack of oversight.

Plus, the design of the material is not the problem, the problem is not following the recommended maintenance and replacement programme.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Oh look, Hunt (sic) has backtracked...

"Jeremy Hunt has been accused of abandoning children disrupted by the concrete crisis in schools after the government admitted there will be no extra cash for the education budget to cover repair costs and closures"

Linky Linky

Well the 'spend what it takes' pledge didn't even last 12 hours!

Yes, we'll spend what it takes (except we won't be paying for it).
It's like next door neighbour's house in need of repair, so I offer to spend what it takes to repair it, knowing full well that I won't be the one paying!

 

[Deleted member 294929]

The politicians set the budgets, and choose the designers, the inspectors, etc.
The governments are the customer, and the customer is responsible for their choices in design, materials, inspections, etc.

Unless you are suggesting that the government were not aware of the design and materials that go into government buildings?
In either case the politicians are responsible for either their choices, or their lack of oversight.

Plus, the design of the material is not the problem, the problem is not following the recommended maintenance and replacement programme.

Can we really hold those responsible. They more than likely are dead Roy


What do you know Roy about
Design
Suitable/Unsuitable materials
Appointing Suitable contractors

 

[jeds]

A couple of misunderstandings going on; Raac didn't have a design life of 30 years when it was installed. When it was discovered that some raac buildings had problems, the BRE predicted that in certain circumstances some raac panels may have a design life of only 30 years. That's not the same as saying raac buildings had a design life of 30 years. Some 30 year old buildings are fine and showing no signs of excessive deterioration.

The variables are poor workmanship on installation, poor manufacturing of some panels (it was found that in some panels the reinforcement didn't properly reach the point loading areas) and poor maintenance. Another factor is that some buildings that have been fairly well maintained also have issues because of the selection of re-roofing materials. Certain roofing materials increase the expansion and contraction of the roof panels and that has caused thermal cracking in some cases.

 

[IT Minion]

Can we really hold those responsible. They more than likely are dead Roy


What do you know Roy about
Design
Suitable/Unsuitable materials
Appointing Suitable contractors

We could hold the people who were told three years ago there was a critical risk to life and a need to repair 400 schools a year to keep up with the issue, who then funded 50.

They're still alive.

 

[Deleted member 294929]

We could hold the people who were told three years ago there was a critical risk to life and a need to repair 400 schools a year to keep up with the issue, who then funded 50.

They're still alive.

That would have been a perfect time to do repairs during Lockdown

 

[IT Minion]

That would have been a perfect time to do repairs during Lockdown

Yes, although some of that's hindsight as we now know how long kids were out of school and we didn't know ahead of time how long we would have. Plus the health and safety of workers.

These kids being stuck in porta cabins and working remotely is entirely avoidable and the extra costs for delay are a result of failing to budget and plan properly.

A lot of badly run organisations can never find the funds for preventative maintenance but can always find far more to fix things once broken.

 

[Deleted member 294929]

Yes, although some of that's hindsight as we now know how long kids were out of school and we didn't know ahead of time how long we would have. Plus the health and safety of workers.

These kids being stuck in porta cabins and working remotely is entirely avoidable and the extra costs for delay are a result of failing to budget and plan properly.

A lot of badly run organisations can never find the funds for preventative maintenance but can always find far more to fix things once broken.

I don't excuse the government they are part of why the building & maintenance industry is broken and not regulated enough.

But they don't know one end of a chisel to another.

I try to explain to customers how best to go about any particular job. And why they need to pay for this rather than that. It can be like talking to a brick wall.

In fairness they don't understand hence why they get experts in to advise and carry our the work.

Getting the right advice and who to trust is down to them. This can be a minefield.

Dealing with government must be a nightmare as they really haven't a clue

 

[Brigadier]

That would have been a perfect time to do repairs during Lockdown

The perfect thing would have been to not cancel the BSF programme.
- RAAC gone.
- asbestos gone.
- thermal efficiency improved.
- better learning environments.
- no more pouring money into sticking plasters on cancers.


And all of the above, without the Wail-ing headlines; just a steady, grown-up approach to renewal of the UK's built environment.

 

[Deleted member 294929]

The perfect thing would have been to not cancel the BSF programme.
- RAAC gone.
- asbestos gone.
- thermal efficiency improved.
- better learning environments.
- no more pouring money into sticking plasters on cancers.


And all of the above, without the Wail-ing headlines; just a steady, grown-up approach to renewal of the UK's built environment.

Don't think I can a disagree