Has anyone any sympathy?

[blup]

Zźzzzzz....America doesn't really have the death penalty

Yes, that's the sound the Chair makes.

 

[securespark]

Zźzzzzz....America doesn't really have the death penalty

Yes they do. 27 states do.

 

[Highway Man]

Yes they do. 27 states do.

Do they still use it though?

 

[SPLINE]

America cannot be held as an example of the death penalty not working, because the death sentence is rarely passed, and when it is, many prisoners then spend forever on death row.

The death penalty, when the threat of it is credible, is highly effective. Islam kills people who criticise islam - and this has caused entire nations...nay, continents, to bend to its will.

 

[morqthana]

No it isn't. 1 in 4 are on the PNC.

Based on the different data you presented:
42.95M people (in your data set) and 12.6M on the PNC (of the same set).

12.6 / 42.95 = (not 1:4)

Indeed, not 1 in 4.

An even higher perentage than IT Minion presented - 12.6 / 42.95 is 1 in 3.4.

 

[IT Minion]

Indeed, not 1 in 4.

An even higher perentage than IT Minion presented - 12.6 / 42.95 is 1 in 3.4.

You're doing this on purpose now. All numbers are millions unless otherwise stated.

12.6 is the number of people on the PNC of working age plus: pensioners, possibly the recently deceased ( I don't think they get deleted for 25 years, but I'm open to correction). Foreign tourists, people who've emigrated, people who've been deported, etc. etc. etc. in short: it's everyone except the under 16s.

42.95 is the number of only working age people in the UK, roughly, my stats had 42.4 Million but that can be due to dates and rounding.

If you want to use 12.6 PNC identities you have to use 55.2 which is the corresponding population according to the ministry of justice statistics I linked to earlier.

If you want to use 42.4 then the total number of PNC nominal records is only 9.4. If you exclude pensioners from one part of it you have to exclude them from the other part too.

Using the number of identities for all adults and then dividing by only working age adults is going to give you the wrong answer. Pensioners are the most likely group to be on the system after all, blaming their entries on workers is unfair.

And again, this is convictions, cautions, no charge, pending charges or just entered into the computer for no obvious reason. These are people with a police record, but not necessarily a criminal record.

If you look through inumeratecycklists link you get the same sort of thing but the footnotes are worse so it's not as easy to work it out.

Now I'm putting you on ignore for a few days for blatantly trolling me.

 

[noseall]

America cannot be held as an example of the death penalty not working

Yes it can.

, and when it is, many prisoners then spend forever on death row

So they are both imprisoned for a long time then executed.

The death penalty, when the threat of it is credible, is highly effective

Proven false. It does not stop, prevent or lower the crimes for which it serves. In fact critics say that the presence of the death penalty increases murder rates.

 

[SPLINE]

critics say that the presence of the death penalty increases murder rates.

Only loony-left critics that is, Boyo! The number of murders and attempted murders in Britain started to rise immediately on abolition of the death sentence and look at how many we now have. The evidence is overwhelmingly against the loonies, but unfortunately the loonies lie and they are in charge.

 

[motorbiking]

And again, this is convictions, cautions, no charge, pending charges or just entered into the computer for no obvious reason. These are people with a police record, but not necessarily a criminal record.

The Home Office have confirmed that 12,591,780 people in the UK have a criminal record.

I can confirm that the number of Nominal records held on the PNC for individuals with a criminal element against their names, as at the latest available report (April 2024) is 12,591,780.

https://unlock.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/FOI2024-05347-PNC-data-April-2024.pdf

Himmy isn't trolling you, he's just pointing out your error

 

[noseall]

The number of murders and attempted murders in Britain started to rise immediately on abolition of the death sentence

Nonsense. Murder rates have steadily increased with population increases over the same period. There have been spikes throughout the same period.

 

[SPLINE]

Nonsense. Murder rates have steadily increased with population increases over the same period. There have been spikes throughout the same period.

By your lunatic claim that the death penalty increases the murder rate, shouldn't abolition have brought it down?

 

[noseall]

By your lunatic claim that the death penalty increases the murder rate, shouldn't abolition have brought it down?

MBK actually...

If you have capital punishment, you will run the risk of innocent people being executed.

That is the first problem.

The second is that with high stakes come high risk, if the sentence is death, then the perpetrators will escalate their violence to avoid capture.

 

[IT Minion]

The Home Office have confirmed that 12,591,780 people in the UK have a criminal record

No they didn't. You've misunderstood that.

I can confirm that the number of Nominal records held on the PNC for individuals with a
criminal element against their names,

A nominal record with a criminal element means they were associated with a crime, not that they were convicted or cautioned. It's a reasonable mistake to make if you don't dig in.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06441/SN06441.pdf#:~:text=An%20individual%20who%20is%20convicted%20of%20a,record%20is%20retained%20until%20their%20100th%20birthday.

Your data set is also for all people, not just adults. So 12.5 / 69 million, which is 18%. And yes nominal records with a criminal element also include juvenile cautions or arrests.

 

[IT Minion]

Himmy isn't trolling you, he's just pointing out your error

And again, the biggest error here you and he are making is taking the number of nominal records and then failing to understand how many people they are shared between.

This is the sort of question that actually needs a mathematician to work it out as. not a simple FOI request completed by a drone in an office. I'm not good enough to do that, but I'm good enough to spot the difference between 44 million and 69 million.

 

[noseall]

By your lunatic claim that the death penalty increases the murder rate, shouldn't abolition have brought it down?

The truth is the death penalty is not a deterrent. It's an expensive folly for the right wing so that they can re-live the heady days of lynchings and summary executions.