80mph limit on motorways.

[imamartian]

incidentally Joe, are you suggesting Emergency vehicles shouldn't drive faster than the speed limit then? because they might have been trained to drive at a higher speed, but you're suggesting nobody else can deal with that faster vehicle !!

 

[joe-90]

And what if they happen when changing lanes one travelling at 58 the other at 88? Gedditt yet?

you obviously don't drive joe!!!! if you want to overtake a car in the middle lane, and need to pull into the fast lane, you check to see what's there (in reality you should know anyway.... really), and you assess their distance and speed and decide if it's safe to pull out in front of them, or if you wait for them to pass !!

It's simple road awareness Joe....!!!

And the greater the speed differential the more likely the driver pulling out will get it wrong. Judging speed through a small mirror is hardly accurate is it? If we all travel at the same speed then that can't happen can it? Are you taking thick pills or something?

 

[joe-90]

incidentally Joe, are you suggesting Emergency vehicles shouldn't drive faster than the speed limit then? because they might have been trained to drive at a higher speed, but you're suggesting nobody else can deal with that faster vehicle !!

It's because it's dangerous to do so that they are fitted with 'blues and two's'.
Did you think they were there just to sound nice and look pretty?

 

[cantaloup63]

It's simple road awareness Joe....!!!

Yep, and a slight misjudgement doing 80 is likely to create far greater damage than at 70; coupled with the obvious fact that the higher the speed, the less time you'll have to atttempt to correct that error.

 

[imamartian]

It's simple road awareness Joe....!!!

Yep, and a slight misjudgement doing 80 is likely to create far greater damage than at 70; coupled with the obvious fact that the higher the speed, the less time you'll have to atttempt to correct that error.

read back a bit ..... the speed difference does not cause you to pull out incorrectly... but it makes a bigger mess if you do !!

Joe is saying that a bigger difference in speed causes more accidents!!

 

[Susiejb]

And what if they happen when changing lanes one travelling at 58 the other at 88? Gedditt yet?

you assess their distance and speed and decide if it's safe to pull out in front of them, or if you wait for them to pass !!

It's simple road awareness Joe....!!!

Totally agree with you on this one I/M

 

[imamartian]

And the greater the speed differential the more likely the driver pulling out will get it wrong.

that may be true, but it's not the speed difference making the driver do that... it's lack of ability or awareness.


If you hate the speed differential so much how do you cope with junctions? cars doing 40 mph and those doing zero wanting to pull out into that stream of traffic !!! carnage !!!!

 

[cantaloup63]

Joe is saying that a bigger difference in speed causes more accidents!!

Logically it must do. Your example of a tyre blowout exemplifies this - the car with the blowout will change speed and direction quite quickly and an accident will occur when cars travelling along different paths and at different speed will thus collide, since they will have less time to react.

 

[imamartian]

Joe is saying that a bigger difference in speed causes more accidents!!

Logically it must do. Your example of a tyre blowout exemplifies this - the car with the blowout will change speed and direction quite quickly and an accident will occur when cars travelling along different paths and at different speed will thus collide, since they will have less time to react.

but it's not the speed difference that causes the blowout !!!!

whereas the resulting effect is a consequence of the difference in speed !!!

 

[cantaloup63]

but it's not the speed difference that causes the blowout !!!!

Never even hinted that it was

whereas the resulting effect is a consequence of the difference in speed !!!

And the bigger the speed difference, the bigger the impact. So, if one does increase the maximum speed limit, then there will be a greater variety of speed differences "available". Add on the kinetic energy involved (0.5mv^2), and it is clearly bonkers to promote a higher speed limit.

 

[joe-90]

Martian. Wot planet you on?

We are talking about probability. The probability that an accident may occur under certain stimulus. The greater the speed and the greater the speed differential between the moving vehicles then the odds of an accident are considerably increased. We can prove this by statistical analysis. Let's make he stimuli more extreme. Let's say the car in lane one travels at 60mph. Lane two at 120 mph and Lane three at 180 mph. It must be clear to you that cars changing lanes on such a motorway would have a greater incidence of accident than if they were travelling at 60, 70 and 70 as they are today. Higher speed means less reaction time and stopping distances will be greater (you can't change the laws of physics). Gedditt yet?

 

[imamartian]

It's not going to happen anyway because the government can't justify the extra loss of life or the extra 20% fuel wasted. Not only that, when people realise how much extra it would cost to travel at 80 rather than 70 they'll sit in the middle lane on 70.

Why not make lane 1 compulsory 58mph.

Lane 2 compulsory 70,

and lane 3 can be left for the idiots that will always do what they want anyway.

Has anyone provided realistic evidence to show an increase in deaths? after all, many countries use 80mph, and of course Germany !!

as for increased fuel consumption, maybe that's what the government want.... increased fuel consumption = increased tax revenue?!!

Cantaloup, read the thread fom here, where i ask if there was suitable evidence that more speed = more death... and then Joe got rude...

my point is that more speed does not CAUSE accidents....it may be a factor in other things, like ability, or awareness... but you could have (in an experimental world) a two lane system with one lane doing 10mph and the other doing 110mph, but to minimise risk you ban lane swapping..

but in essence i just wondered if the research had been done to back up Joe's argument (that he'd worked out on the bus !!)

 

[joe-90]

Yes it does because reaction time is down and stopping distance is up.

 

[imamartian]

Martian. Wot planet you on?

We are talking about probability. The probability that an accident may occur under certain stimulus. The greater the speed and the greater the speed differential between the moving vehicles then the odds of an accident are considerably increased. We can prove this by statistical analysis. Let's make he stimuli more extreme. Let's say the car in lane one travels at 60mph. Lane two at 120 mph and Lane three at 180 mph. It must be clear to you that cars changing lanes on such a motorway would have a greater incidence of accident than if they were travelling at 60, 70 and 70 as they are today. Higher speed means less reaction time and stopping distances will be greater (you can't change the laws of physics). Gedditt yet?

massive speed differential makes making decision more prone to error, but if you're capable (like an F1 driver) you don't make that error.

the point is where we perhaps agree.... is that many people aren't good at driving at motorway speed.

but to counter you.. imagine count xyz... where they teach drivine at junior school.... and F1 is on the natuional curriculum. Their motorway runs at 120mph because the skill set of their society is better at driving...

 

[imamartian]

Yes it does because reaction time is down and stopping distance is up.

and a bad decision based on the above is the cause of an accident, the speed (60/80/100/120) is irrelevant!!