After Germany we pay most in to the Eu

[Brigadier]

1 in 23 of the UK workforce already work in the NHS.

 

[ellal]

If that's the best you have.....

*sigh*

Next time try ignoring the unicorns before you post...

Because they don't actually exist

 

[ellal]

1 in 23 of the UK workforce already work in the NHS.

According to your figures that's 4.34%...

However in the NHS 63,000 of the staff – 5.6% of the total workforce – are from EU countries, including 10% of doctors and 7% of nurses.

So your point is?

 

[Brigadier]

That the NHS forms a very significant proportion of the total pull on the available labour pool, regardless of its origins .

Is it that the NHS to which we aspire is, realistically, unattainable?
Again, serious, and apolitical, question.

 

[ellal]

That the NHS forms a very significant proportion of the total pull on the available labour pool, regardless of its origins .

Is it that the NHS to which we aspire is, realistically, unattainable?
Again, serious, and apolitical, question.

Well since the NHS is currently the most efficient universal healthcare system in the world, the only ones saying it is 'unsustainable' are those who wish to see it privatised and who are underfunding it in order to achieve that goal...

Brexit has already had a big effect on the staffing levels, and add to that the ridiculous tuition fees charged to become a doctor/nurse in this country and you have the 'perfect storm'...

And the American healthcare vultures are licking their lips at the carnage they are about to inflict, and the sad thing is that quitters don't understand that they have voted to destroy probably the last thing that the world envies the UK for having!

 

[Brigadier]

.........................................., the only ones saying it is 'unsustainable' are those who wish to see it privatised and who are underfunding it in order to achieve that goal...

g!

Was this guy speaking on behalf of the Royal College at the time?............linky


I can't find a link, but there was an eminent surgical professor (and NHS staffer, although he advised all over the world) who said that the NHS was unsustainable, in an interview on R5L last year, IIRC.
Basically, he said the concept was flawed in that, the more money you spend (prolonging peoples' lives), the more money you need to keep doing it. (I don't recall whether he advocated euthanasia, as a logical endpoint......)

 

[JP_]

Roads are unsustainable, the police is unsustainable, schools are unsustainable - nothing is sustainable if you decide not to invest in it.

There are 4 million diabetics in the UK. Insulin costs Americans around $500 a month. So in UK money, that's about .... £18,912,000,000 a year in pill sales. Just for diabetics.
Add in drugs for CVD, antibiotics, antidepressants ... few people that need these drugs earn the money to buy them. It'd be a massive step backwards to return to a system where only wealthy people can afford good medical care. The lowest tier private health insurance is pretty much "oh, you're dying, here's a bed and a cup of tea".

For example, in the US the most popular health insurance is Medicaid, which does not provide drugs, just the care, hospital stay, doctor consultations etc.

It really isn't hard to see why some people would prefer a private health system - it's all about the money!

 

[JP_]

Was this guy speaking on behalf of the Royal College at the time?............linky

"Britain must turn its back on a tax-funded NHS and embrace a European insurance-funded healthcare model, according to a leading doctor."

Funny really, to think that after leaving the EU we might convert our NHS to a European system... maybe those Europeans really do know how to run the place!

 

[Brigadier]

It really isn't hard to see why some people would prefer a private health system - it's all about the money!

Whether private or public, it's about the money. Unless you believe in money trees.

 

[Brigadier]

"Britain must turn its back on a tax-funded NHS and embrace a European insurance-funded healthcare model, according to a leading doctor."

Funny really, to think that after leaving the EU we might convert our NHS to a European system... maybe those Europeans really do know how to run the place!

I take it you went off on one then about the US model, before you read the link?

As for the Europeans knowing their onions, you might want to discuss that with Ellal; he reckons the NHS is currently the most efficient universal healthcare system in the world (my sibling, who is frontline NHS theatre staff, would find that very hard to believe. And not for want of funding, btw).

 

[gasbanni]

Keep paying your taxes there are millions of Polish pensioners depending on them.
Whilst the retirement age for men and woman in the UK has increased to 66 for men and women the Polish government has reduced the retirement age for Poles to 60 for women and 65 for men.
This means you will have to work longer so that the Poles can retire earlier.
Nice one

I see no remoaners have countered your post, come on you remoaners give us answers to this fiasco!

 

[gasbanni]

To help restore balance, a few reasons the payment is good for the UK:

1. Membership of the world’s largest trading bloc with over 500 million consumers, representing 23% of global GDP
2. The UK has greater global influence as a member of the EU
3. The EU provides a counterweight to the global power of the US, Russia and China
4. With Trump in the White House the UK’s strongest natural allies are France, Germany and our other West European neighbours
5. Tariff-free trade within the EU
6. The abolition of non-tariff barriers (quotas, subsidies, administrative rules etc.) among members
7. Participation in free trade agreements with Japan and Canada as an EU member
8. The EU accounts for 44% of all UK exports of goods and services
9. The EU accounts for 53% of all UK imports of goods and services
10. Cheaper food and alcohol imports from continental Europe
11. As a member of the EU the UK maintains a say in the shaping of the rules governing its trade with its European partners
12. 3.1 million jobs in the UK are directly linked to exports to the EU
13. Free movement of labour has helped UK firms plug skills gaps (translators, doctors, plumbers)
14. Free movement of labour has helped address shortages of unskilled workers (fruit picking, catering)
15. The Single Market has brought the best continental footballers to the Premier League
16. The EU accounts for 47% of the UK’s stock of inward Foreign Direct Investment (FDI), worth over $1.2 trillion
17. Access to the EU Single Market has helped attract investment into the UK from outside the EU
18. No paperwork or customs for UK exports throughout the single market
19. Price transparency and removal of commissions on currency transactions across the Eurozone
20. FDI into the UK has effectively doubled since the creation of the EU Single Market
21. The UK’s net contribution to the EU budget is around €7.3bn, or 0.4% of GDP (less than an eighth of the UK’s defence spending)
22. No time consuming border checks for travellers (apart from in the UK)
23. The City of London, as a global financial hub, has acted as a bridge between foreign business and the EU
24. British banks and insurance companies have been able to operate freely across the EU
25. Cornwall receives up to £750 million per year from the EU Social Fund (ESF)
26. Structural funding for areas of the UK hit by industrial decline (South Wales, Yorkshire)
27. Support for rural areas under the European Agricultural Fund for Regional Development (EAFRD)
28. EU funding for infrastructure projects in the UK including £122 million for the “Midlands engine” project
29. Financial support from the EU for over 3,000 small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in the UK
30. EU funding for the British film industry
31. EU funding for British theatre, music and dance
32. EU funding for British sport, including football apprenticeships, tennis and rugby league
33. Glasgow (1990) and Liverpool (2008) benefitted from being European capitals of culture, stimulating their local economies
34. EU competition laws protect consumers by combatting monopolistic business practices
35. Strict controls on the operations of Multinational Corporations (MNCs) in the EU
36. Human Rights protected under the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights
37. The death penalty can never be reintroduced as it is incompatible with EU membership
38. Minority languages such as Welsh and Irish are recognized and protected under EU law
39. The right to reside in any EU member state
40. The freedom to work in 28 countries without visa and immigration restrictions
41. The mutual recognition of professional qualifications has facilitated the free movement of engineers, teachers and doctors across the EU
42. The mutual recognition of educational diplomas
43. The Common European Framework of Reference for Languages (CEFR) has standardized assessment of language proficiency across the EU
44. The freedom to study in 28 countries (many EU universities teach courses in English and charge lower fees than in the UK)
45. The Erasmus programme of university exchanges (benefitting 16000 UK students a year)
46. The freedom to set up a business in 28 countries
47. The ability to retire in any member state
48. Pension transferability
49. The right to vote in local and European Parliamentary elections if resident in any member state
50. EU laws making it easier for British people to buy property on the continent
51. The right to receive emergency healthcare in any member state (EHIC card)
52. Consular protection from any EU embassy outside the EU
53. The EU has played a leading role in combatting global warming (Paris 2015 climate change conference)
54. Common EU greenhouse gas emissions targets (19% reduction from 1990 to 2015)
55. Improvements in air quality (significant reductions in sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxides) as a result of EU legislation
56. Reductions in sewage emissions
57. Improvements in the quality of beaches and bathing water
58. EU standards on the quality of drinking water
59. Restrictions on landfill dumping
60. EU targets for recycling
61. Common EU regulations on the transportation and disposal of toxic waste
62. The implementation of EU policies to reduce noise pollution in urban areas
63. EU policies have stimulated offshore wind farms
64. Strict safety standards for cars, buses and trucks
65. Protection of endangered species and habitats (EU Natura 2000 network)
66. Strict ban on animal testing in the cosmetics industry
67. Membership of the European Medicines Agency (EMA) which monitors the quality and safety of medicines (until recently located in London)
68. 13% of EU budget earmarked for scientific research and innovation
69. The UK receives £730 million a year in EU funding for research
70. EU funding for UK universities
71. Cooperation in the peaceful use of nuclear energy as a member of Euratom
72. Minimum paid annual leave and time off work (Working Time Directive)
73. Equal pay between men and women enshrined in European law since 1957
74. The right to work no more than 48 hours a week without paid overtime
75. Minimum guaranteed maternity leave of 14 weeks for pregnant women
76. Rights to a minimum 18 weeks of parental leave after child birth
77. EU anti-discrimination laws governing age, religion and sexual orientation
78. EU rules governing health and safety at work
79. The rights to collective bargaining and trade union membership are enshrined in EU employment law
80. The UK enjoys an opt out from the single currency and maintains full control of its borders as a non-member of the Schengen area
81. Since 1985 the UK has received a budget rebate equivalent to 66% of its net contribution to the EU budget
82. EU cross-country coordination offers greater protection from terrorists, pedophiles, people traffickers and cyber-crime
83. The European common arrest warrant
84. Europe-wide patent and copyright protection
85. EU consumer protection laws concerning transparency and product guarantees of quality and safety
86. Improved food labeling
87. A ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives
88. Cheaper air travel due to EU competition laws
89. Common EU air passenger rights
90. Deregulation of the European energy market has increased consumer choice and lowered prices
91. Mutual recognition of the common European driving license
92. The introduction of the European pet passport
93. The abolition of mobile telephone roaming charges
94. The EU acts as a guarantor of the Irish Good Friday Agreement
95. A frictionless Irish border
96. The EU acts as a guarantor of the special status of Gibraltar
97. The EU helped support and maintain democracy in Spain, Portugal and Greece from the 1970s and these countries have become major destinations for British tourists
98. EU membership has helped facilitate intercultural dialogue

Surley you could have thought of two more or as cut and pasted two more to give us a round 100 !

Frankly it's a pathetic attempt, a better example of a speciouness argument would be hard to find.

 

[JP_]

OK, maybe a better response should be Remain Means Remain.

 

[JP_]

I see no remoaners have countered your post, come on you remoaners give us answers to this fiasco!

The argument against this is very simple: The EU does not fund Polish pension schemes. The EU provides funds to Polish agriculture, infrastructure or economic development, there is no transfer of money into pension funds. It is a known piece of fake news that was used to make people think the EU is a bad thing. If you still believe it, you have to wonder what other fake news you also still believe!

oh, and to add to that, the retirement age in Poland is 65 for men, and 64 for women.

 

[ellal]

As for the Europeans knowing their onions, you might want to discuss that with Ellal; he reckons the NHS is currently the most efficient universal healthcare system in the world (my sibling, who is frontline NHS theatre staff, would find that very hard to believe. And not for want of funding, btw).