Atmos - take heat from land rover and stores in home

J

JonasX

The IC engine , diesel & petrol will be with us for a long . long time , good I say !!

In in then form we know it it will not. You like pollution, noisy filthy, antiquated crap? mmmmmmmm

China also make the Prius and EVs.

Stuff yer Vorsprung Durch Tecnique :)

I agree. That was for a petrol car.
 
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This hybrid stuff is a cinch..... Started building one this afternoon. It will be a collaboration of British, German and Austrian technology.... If there isn't a god almighty explosion I'll be driving round in my Unimog with the plant out of a Sentinel steamer fed by a Windhager pellet boiler.......Toot Toot :D
 
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Torotrac is an in-line trasnmisiosn. The Toyota transmission is "parallel. It apportions power from either elec or petro motor, or both and presents the wheels as it as if it is an electric motor.
If you believe that then you'd better go back and study the Pious transmission. The PSD as it's called is a version of CVT, using gears and two motor-generators to achieve it's operation.
Elect motors need no transmissions.
And the Pious isn't driven by electric motors - it's mechanically driven by a differential, and the PSD - to which electric motor power is one input.
Liquid fuel transport and dispensing takes an enormous setup. The refineries, storage depots, stations, are all substantial.

Upgrading the local distribution network is not a great thing. Dedicated lines can be run in just for zap stations. No different to the disruption in replacing water mains or running in tram lines. Stop imagining things.
Now your delusion is showing.
Yes, setting up all that refinery stuff is big business. If you are going to consider that side of things, then so is building a power station AND the means of getting that power to the user. You demonstrate a quaint view (seemingly common amongst EV supporters) that electrical infrastructure building is rather like running out an extension lead to your shed in complexity and cost.

Now, for your homework, go off and find the calorific value of petrol/diesel (and propane as well please). Work out the equivalent in kWHr for a litre of liquid fuel.
A litre of diesel is about 10 Kwh, burned at around 20% efficiency. 80% of the energy in the tanks is wasted. 50 litres of diesel is equivalent to 100 KWh of battery.[/quote]
So taking your figures (which I haven't verified), and say an average fill is 100kW. That can be done in under 5 minutes with diesel - an equivalent recharge rate for your battery is therefore in the order of 1.2MW. The forecourt at my local supermarket has 12 pumps, lets assume only 50% utilisation at peak times (to allow for people going in to pay etc), so 6 times 1.2 is 7.2MW. I can assure you that there is no way you could dump that sort of load on a main substation without putting some lights out - and local to where I work, there are three supermarkets and several other forecourts (so 4 or 5 times that 7.2MW).
Yes in theory you could use local storage to peak lop that - but that's a huge amount of storage (remember that electrickery isn't easy or cheap to store).
[/quote]You are grasping at straws carping on about that the infrastructure will not cope. It will when gradually updated.

Look at North Sea Gas. Within 18 months of a big find, the first district was converted - and all appliance as well. All the UK was done within 8 to 9 years - infrastructure built and appliances converted. Every meter needed a regulator as well and many needed replacing. Are you saying the UK can't accommodate EVs? Please.[/quote]
But, remember this. Before North Sea Gas we already had gas - so we already had the gasholders, and the pipes, etc. Ie we had most of the infrastructure in place. For electrical distribution we do NOT have that infrastructure in place at the levels needed. Yes the grid and local distribution can be upgraded - but not cheaply, quickly, or without massive disruption while it happens.

Like it or not, liquid fuel (such as methanol) is easy to transport using the infrastructure already in place. Transferring it is, as you've helped point out, a high energy rate operation. You've said yourself that hybrids like the Pious have low emissions in town (which I don't dispute BTW) - but you can charge their fuel tanks at high rates (MW equivalent) with liquid fuel verses a few tens of kW max with dedicated charge stations, or probably about 10 to 20kW max at home.


Now, for a few more figures.
I just had a quick look and one of the first things I came across was this (pdf). In 2001, 26% of 237.7 million tons of oil or equivalent (TOE) was used by transport. So a little over 60 million TOE. That's the equivalent of about 85,000 million litre of diesel. Going by chart 2.1, more than 3/4 was road, so lets say 60 billion l of diesel equivalent. Using your figures from earlier, (25l diesel equivalent to 100kWHr battery charge), that's a total electrical equivalent of around 120 billion kWHr over a year, or over 13 million kW if spread uniformly over the whole year. So 13GW of extra generating and distribution capacity if we went all electric AND all charged at a uniform rate (no peaks). Yes I know we won't be going all electric - but it does kind of point out that it's not an insignificant amount of power required.
With smart metering (ie centrally controlled charging overnight) we can support a fair amount of lecky transport. But note that I said home charging - so you can park up, plug in, and overnight be fully charged. That' the only time most people will be reasonably able to charge up.

Within the next few years, we will into a supply situation where the lights going out is a real risk. Friends in teh industry tell me we were fairly close at times last December - when incidentally those windmills we keep getting told will supply the green lecky for all these green cars will come from - were producing the low end of b***er-all across the country. Times like last December will also be times when lecky cars have crap range or will be burning liquid fuels to keep the occupants warm.
 
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Jonas - how are all these Londoners living in flats on streets with no drives going to be charging all these cars overnight? Who owns the pavements?

Thats right - one of 33 or so independent boroughs who can't even arrange to have uniform parking regulations and enforcement.

Other major centres are not much better.

And what are all those vans and lorries driving around the city doing? that's right - allowing the metropolis to function. Do you think deliveries are going to be made from the back of a Pious? Not all the companies can use electric vehicles - the range is simply never going to appear. Batteries are firking heavy regardless of what they are made of. which as I pointed out earlier - is usually from some pretty nasty cocktails of precious metals - often mined from 3rd world countries from essentially slave labour. Not something your average lentil muncher will admit to either is it?
 
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JonasX";p="2160325 said:
The IC engine , diesel & petrol will be with us for a long . long time , good I say !!

In in then form we know it it will not. You like pollution, noisy filthy, antiquated crap? mmmmmmmm

China also make the Prius and EVs.

China are also building coal fired power stations , at a rate of 1 a month!

With out these noisey filthy , peices of antiquated crap , your life would be the poorer for it !

All of the raw materials / minerals that are the basis for these new batterys & other electronic components that go into this so called green tech , are dug out of the ground by some fella, woman ,child ? probably earning less than a dollar a day !
 

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