BBC Rogue Traders

[ericmark]

Assuming the straight swap, which mine was is prescient here. Obvously wouldn't comment on a more complex situation

Unfortunately a straight swap is rare. And for most consumer unit changes the customer expects to get a price up front. So pricing has to be an average well I suppose the clever ones could complex maths with normal distribution to work it out but if the basic job would take 2 hours one would charge for at least 3 hours to cover for the job which takes 8 hours.

In theory one could test each circuit and any that file just not connect and report it as requiring further work. But most house holders would not accept that and unlike when my Dad's house was done where one could simply not RCD protect any problem circuits now anyone working under one of the schemes has to protect most circuits.

Not to protect leaves the electrician open to prosecution should anything go wrong and to say one does not need to upgrade is really a brave approach as it is the very houses which have problems that need the RCD protection most.

I have been lucky and fitted RCD's with no problems. I have also had the reverse where someone complains it trips out every day and it takes a week before one finds it's a faulty washing machine and it only trips when on super fast spin. There comment is valid "It was all right until you changed the consumer unit" and one would have to be heartless to charge them for 5 call outs even though it was not my fault.

So most electricians look at what happened in past and if 10 CU changes took 50 hours then they charge 5 hours for a CU change even though 7 of them only took 2 hours. The guy charging 2 hours will have ceased trading by time you have problems and gone to work cards in as he can't make it pay. He will also fail to write out the installation certificate and as far as the Part P completion certificates you can forget that.

We see on here again and again someone got their CU changed and has no paperwork and wants to know how to get it. Or only the Installation Certificate was issued with no completion certificate and then to sell house they have to fork out another £100+ to LABC.

So prove me wrong what was the PSC and ELI figure entered in the paperwork and what was the earth system? Electrician can cross reference these so easy to assess if they are real figures.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Christ, I paid £150 for a replacement CU, yes, qualified sparky, plus relevant documentation. That's in the south east. OK, let's qualify it a bit, I supplied the CU (12way split load fully loaded - £1.00) off ebay, also I know the guy who did it so got mates rates, even though £600 - £900 to replace a CU? Seems excessive to me (assuming a straight swap)

Is that the old-type split load (ie only one RCD for socket circuits)?

If so, how did he comply with the requirements to RCD protect other circuits (eg lighting, bathrooms, etc)?

 

[LoveRocket]

Christ, I paid £150 for a replacement CU, yes, qualified sparky, plus relevant documentation. That's in the south east. OK, let's qualify it a bit, I supplied the CU (12way split load fully loaded - £1.00) off ebay, also I know the guy who did it so got mates rates, even though £600 - £900 to replace a CU? Seems excessive to me (assuming a straight swap)

Is that the old-type split load (ie only one RCD for socket circuits)?

If so, how did he comply with the requirements to RCD protect other circuits (eg lighting, bathrooms, etc)?

Maybe it was before June 2008?

 

[AndyPRK]

Here to watch it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00shmtd/Watchdog_20_05_2010/


watch from 14 mins
part 2 from 30 mins
part 3 from 49 mins


Did you see the Police car in the background :lol

 

[SparkyNinja]

I charged a guy £958.00 to change his consumer unit at home last week, and this morning changed one for £210.00. Both jobs were to satisfy with BS7671 and both were priced with the same pricing structure. There are many variables to be considered that are not illustrated enough to our clients.

 

[securespark]

Yeah, there are many variables.

The son seemed to be offering best advice when he told the customer that the installation was not unsafe but did not meet latest regulations.

This is what I do. I have to compare all installations against 7671:2008. If there is no or part-RCD protection on TN systems, I mark it as not to current standards if necessary.

I always insist to customers that NTCS issues does not mean it is unsafe, just not compliant with the latest regs.

I pride myself on being honest with my customers: if it is an at risk issue, I say so. If it is NTCS, then I explain it is not safety critical, but if the customers want to upgrade to current standards, then they can.

However, I can't condone his scare tactics.

I never use scare tactics to try and sell something. I have used the heart story (slightly more accurately) to explain to a customer the risk of using broken accessories with exposed live parts thus:

"Electricity in the home alternates 50 times a second. In the event of an electrical contact affecting cardiac muscle, the heart will attempt to beat at that rate, causing fibrillation. Above a certain level of current, heart muscle is rendered immobile. 30mA RCD protection will not prevent electric shock, but should prevent serious injury or death."

 

[sparkwright]

Anyone noticed that these type of programmes never focus on the actual workmanship carried out?

We didn't get to see if work was neat, RCDs correctly spread out, good connections etc. It's never commented on.

Also on these programmes, when the electrician is secretly filmed to do a job it is ALWAYS fault finding, and never installing something. Of course, it usually develops into a consumer unit change.

They should find a house for a rogue electrician to re-wire; and see what he does/charges.

Although some of the quotes given for changing the consumer units were outrageously expensive, and would hope most people would have the sense not to pay for such work, the programme may give electricians and consumer unit replacements a bad name. The programme has implied that fuse boxes do not need upgrading, when sometimes it is the sensible thing to do.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[ColJack]

I only saw the first part but the son didn't try and play it like that, he suggested that the CU wasn't up to the current standards or even the previous standards since it didn't contain an RCD for socket circuits..

his price was a bit high according to the "expert" but as I wasn't standing there I can't see what he saw that might warrant a higher price, perhaps there would be other remedial work, or maybe that price included the LABC notification fee of £185 or whatever it is in that area ( no one said he was Part P registered.. ).

ok granted he launched into the sales patter before fixing the fault or even making a decent effort to find it in the first place.

the dad on the other hand was a git from the get go.. didn't look for the fault, tried doing tests at the CU and told her it was banned last year..

 

[EddieM]

Well, as I'm no electrican, I'll answer as best as I know.

it was done about 4 years ago. The whole house has a separate RCD up(down??)stream of the CU.

 

[timtheenchanter]

about time there was rogue customers slot, I know of far more tradesmen that have been ripped off by customers than the other way around...

that wouldnt make good TV though would it

 

[Sparklms]

how did he comply with the requirements to RCD protect other circuits (eg lighting, bathrooms, etc)?

RCBO's maybe?

 

[stillp]

The point was that the two sparks were called out to deal with minor faults, dodgy light switch and a socket outlet.
But instead of repairing the fault they immediately launched into the spiel - " If I don't fit a new cu you will die"

holmslaw, that's a true statement - everybody dies eventually!

 

[ColJack]

The point was that the two sparks were called out to deal with minor faults, dodgy light switch and a socket outlet.
But instead of repairing the fault they immediately launched into the spiel - " If I don't fit a new cu you will die"

holmslaw, that's a true statement - everybody dies eventually!

that statement cannot be varified..
as not everyone on the earth is currently dead, then there is every possibility that one of them out there will have been born with a gene mutation that renders them immortal.
one 16/17 year old girl in america has remained the same since she was 2.. she's still biologically a 2 year old.. with about the same mental capacity unfortunately..

 

[onlyfitidealboilers]

that matt albright is a wolly tho