Could you point out where lashes/imprisonment for 'oppressive clothing' is to be found in UK law?
Boris
- Thread starter pete50
- Start date
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sodthisforfun
I think you do not understand it.
I think people have become so quick to judge others and their comments that they shut down debate. There is as much offense in comparing either religions to letterboxes or penguins in the real sense. This country has got utterly mad, and so has the people in it who think that Boris's comments will set off an increase of racism against Muslim women.
I have said before Boris is a ****. However, it's not an offense to be a ****. His comments may cause offense but that is very much subjective. That's the wonderful thing about this country, we have free speech, including for people like Boris.. Free speech means I can have access to all the information then make up my own mind, not a filtered set of information that one group says is right and then blocks out what they deem 'bad'.
Honestly I cannot dumb it down any more for you.
Using a certain section of people , unecessarily. He had made his point, fairly well (he certainly has that ability). All he did, deliberately, by adding the contentious bit, was encouraging people who are easily led, to think it is acceptable to ridicule people for wearing an item he said should not be banned.
I am not going to try and explain it further for you. Either you understand, or you don't. I think you do, but think your freedom of speech is acceptable when you say it, but not if it is said against your beliefs.
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sodthisforfun
And here we have the reason why I said understanding the history of the burkas etc is important to understand why Boris's comments may be seen as distasteful. If you are talking about just the UK then Boris's comments are as bad as calling a nun a penguin.
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sodthisforfun
Rubbish. I've never told you your comments are unacceptable, I thought we were talking. You are making blanket statements about Boris and what will happen. As I said a while ago, I do not think the UK will behave any worse towards Muslim people on the back of Boris's comments. What he said wasn't hate speech, nor inciting hatred. He caused annoyance for sure and he could've chosen words better but it wasn't considered hatred or racist in this country by our laws.
Another thing I find amusing is the mention that Boris did this for political reasons. And his reaction by other MP's has also been for political reasons. The whole thing for politicians is for gain so none of them are really should be given the time of day.
But what you don't seem to understand is that quoting what may happen in other countries to a 'willing audience' here (with irrelevant inferences) in order to make your point could be described as incendiary...
People who live in countries in what is known as 'the west' may not have participated in the illegal wars that the US/UK (predominantly) undertook, but they are tarred with the same 'western' brush in other parts of the world!
And it matters not which attire a person wears in 'honour' of whichever imaginary friend they believe in...
The verbal attack that Boris made is perceived as an attack on Islam in general in many places.
Just as the attack on 9/11 was seen as an attack on 'the west' in general in many places, and similarly the response...
It matters not the severity, as both are wrong...
But ignorance of the causes of the rift (on both sides) simply ensures that the perpetual continuation of violence is inevitable!
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And you are welcome to your opinion, as I am to mine.
Just be sure it is your own opinion?
That is not meant as a challenge. I am not going further, the points have been made. No need to keep chasing the circle.
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sodthisforfun
It is my opinion. Which is why I refuse to be up in arms in a reactionary style.
Ok, but I'm sure the reference was to wearing inappropriate clothing - meaning too little.
That your wife does not need telling means either she does not wear too little or you don't mind her wearing too little.
I am questioning your view that muslim women are forced to wear too much - i.e. oppression.
I had not realised you were stopping your daughter from covering up.
So, it's not about wearing too much, then - therefore you are making decisions where the line shall be drawn for her, so your daughter may regard that as oppression.
It doesn't make me anything.
Questioning you has no bearing on nor indication of what I do.
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sodthisforfun
The reasons, yet again I have to explain, why I mention other Muslim countries with head coverings are enforced is to point out the long history of oppression against women with these coverings. So without understanding and considering the history of that Boris's comments are as hurtful as calling a nun a penguin. But with that understanding of history then we should debate if a burka and whatever has any place in any society in this day and age. If it does then it should be a freedom to choose, freedom for the women - world over. Until the connection with oppression and head coverings has been broken and it truly is a free expression then it's correct to debate and question. It will be impossible to question and debate without offending some people somewhere. Should we let that stop us? Remember, offending feelings doesn't actually cause harm, certainly not in comparison to women who face lashes or imprisonment.
People are always learning, always moving forward. It's what we do well. If we didn't then we'd be doing all sorts of strange things we did before we had knowledge and education, like burning witches at the stake and other crazy sh*t.
I agree, wars are always wrong, as are extremes. But debate (without insults) is always good.
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Are you serious?
Wars have been fought over 'offending feelings'!
And yet in times past you would have paid a price for saying just that...
Cultures evolve at different paces..
Have you not noticed the recent changes in the Saudi/Iranian etc approach to women?
(And don't forget, in the west we are still far away from equality!)
It may take a while, but an outright politically motivated attack by boris merely puts the cause back!
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sodthisforfun
What wars have been started over offended feelings?
If you believe that to be the case then wars have been started by stupid morons.
When has calling a nun a penguin carried a price? Please tell me where and what that price entailed.
Yes, cultures evolve at different paces. Does it mean that it is an offense for a culture that has ceased oppressing women to question those who still do? And yes, Saudi's are allowing women to drive, horay. Iran, no, they went backwards. They are more oppressive now than just 40 years ago, once the more 'Western' thinking Reza Shah was overthrown. Not to mention the relatively new 'Morality police' they have started. Police, by the way, are completely free from prosecution even if they beat someone for not having hair covered properly.
And I disagree with Boris comment. He has everyone talking. As I said, talking & debating is the only healthy way to bring about change.
Where did I say Corbyn is a holocaust denier.
I said he has shared platforms with such people.
Weak attempt to catch me out. Do try harder
More deflection.
You are happy to question of banning as an argument to prove your point in discussion with a person on here
Yet when I make the comparison with countries that have placed a ban, suddenly it is not for you to judge.
How convenient.
I am not even sure what point you are making.
Do you agree with banning, or do you disagree.
Another false argument from Yafo.
I never said it we should be telling another country what should be done.
Perfectly acceptable to have an opinion though, especially where the discussion is about the same toic in this country.
Do you think it is right a law should be passed to restrict what women wear? (Take I mean this country, as you cant bring yourself to have an opinion on another country).
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