Bye Shammina ...

[JP_]

I wish it was possible for posters like "Jonbey" to see this stuff. It may open at least one eye slightly for them.

I don't dispute that, but it is still an odd situation. If they had committed fraud, for example, would we break our own laws and make a criminal stateless? She was born in England, which makes her British. Under our own laws, we cannot make a person stateless, but that is exactly what we have done.

From what I read, I agree, she sounds awful. But that does not change the fact that she was a British child when she married a foreigner (a Dutch man that converted to Islam - the Netherlands have said they do not recognise the marriage she was underage) and then got pregnant. She still seems to believe in the ISIS cause, so you would not want her running about the place, but should we make her stateless, and make no attempt to rehabilitate?

I am not saying I agree with her ideology or what she has done, but we have laws and rules, which is what makes us a civilised society.

 

[^woody^]

The point is she renounced this country, its laws, its life, to make her new home in the glorious caliphate and fight against the infidels. Then, like all leeches, once that didn't quite work out, she demands to come back to the land and the life and the people that she previously hated and wanted to kill.

Nothing at all like grooming.

So **** her, her bastard child and all like her.

 

[Bodd]

Because she was "married" at the age of 15, and got pregnant. Under UK law, that would mean she was raped.

 

[JP_]

She was in Syria... what's the law there. ???

So if you had a 15 year old daughter, and she went to another country, got "married" in an unlawful way, and the marriage was consummated in the traditional way, you'd just say "oh well, it wasn't against the law over there"? I am not sure many parents would agree with this, and British law certainly does not.

 

[JP_]

View attachment 224460

Which is why I said, under UK law.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

She was in Syria... what's the law there. ???

Jonbey did say under UK law. As she was a British citizen at the time, it could be argued that she was a victim under British law.
Rape has no international boundaries, as far as I am aware.

 

[JP_]

Nothing at all like grooming.

But how did she get to that point?

It's like saying a girl entrapped with a drugs gang in Essex has renounced her family life to live the glorious gang life (it happens all the time!).
Do we give up on them? Do we never attempt to welcome them back, even when they then say, they wish it never happened?

As I said, a tricky one!

 

[Bodd]

So if you had a 15 year old daughter, and she went to another country, got "married" in an unlawful way, and the marriage was consummated in the traditional way, you'd just say "oh well, it wasn't against the law over there"? I am not sure many parents would agree with this, and British law certainly does not.

If she went to Sweden and got married there would be nothing I could do......

No sain Father would be happy his little girl was having sex at 15

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I'm not sure that this ruling will be the end of it.
She has been denied a fair hearing. I suspect an appeal to the ECHR will be forthcoming.

 

[Bodd]

Jonbey did say under UK law. As she was a British citizen at the time, it could be argued that she was a victim under British law.
Rape has no international boundaries, as far as I am aware.

How does this sit with Sweden.?

How many Pakistani men now living in this country have been prosecuted for marriage to an under age girl?

 

[JP_]

If she went to Sweden and got married there would be nothing I could do......

No sain Father would be happy his little girl was having sex at 15

Exactly. And the state has a responsibility for its citizens too. And laws that back that responsibility.

 

[^woody^]

But how did she get to that point?

It's like saying a girl entrapped with a drugs gang in Essex has renounced her family life to live the glorious gang life (it happens all the time!).
Do we give up on them? Do we never attempt to welcome them back, even when they then say, they wish it never happened?

As I said, a tricky one!

How many groomed kids end up blowing up themselves and hundreds of innocent people?

How many behead others that don't follow the same God in exactly the same way?

How many hate everyone who does not share the exact same beliefs, and call for their gruesome deaths?

 

[Bodd]

Exactly. And the state has a responsibility for its citizens too. And laws that back that responsibility.

So if a Swedish girl of 15 Marie's a Swedish man of 21, then come and lived in the UK would he be arrested?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

How does this sit with Sweden.?

What does Sweden have to do with it?

How many Pakistani men now living in this country have been prosecuted for marriage to an under age girl?

I assume rape investigations require a victim to initiate the complaint. No victim, no investigation, no instigator, no trial, etc.

 

[motorbiking]

This is only about her right to come here to fight her case, not her right to come "home". The court probably rightly realised she would have very little involvement in the legal arguments, so didn't see the benefit of her being here.

I'm very much on the fence regarding her case. On the one hand a 15 year old will know right from wrong and should be ware of the life changing risks of running away to join the circus. On the other I very much doubt she wasn't externally influenced by her family and others.