Can't get the staff
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When I was at secondary school it was drilled into us on a regular basis that if you had anything approaching a reasonable mind you would be demeaning yourself if you were to take a "manual" job where you could actually get your hands dirty. (These days I just try to imagine how well the head of our maths department would have done setting out a cut roof and balconies 90ft above street level on a wind swept mill in winter - and then having to vdo the cuts and build it)
I feel that this is the same sort of elitist thinking behind the idea that everyone has the "right" to "earn" a degree, but doesn't take into account the potential usefulness of that degree (which is why a few years ago, one year there was something like 1200 graphics arts graduates chasing about 40 openings in the UK - or at least according to the son of an associate. He is now running a bookmaker's shop for one of the big betting firms)
Metalwork and/or woodwork were once practical skills taught to kids to help them get a job. The skills acquired in metalwork included manual muscle skills, hand-eye co-ordination, teamwork (try doing 2-handed forge work without that), technical drawing and the ability to follow instructions. Then the modernists decided that what was needed was "materials technology", where they could teach kids about plastics and the like. Workshops were used less, then the teaching became more theory than practice, possibly because the teachers employed couldn't actually use the tools or do woodwork or metalwork, so the workshops were used less and less (certainly so at my old school) and were eventually turned over to other "more useful" subjects. I'm told that the same sort of thing happened with home economics and sewing that happened with woodwork and metalwork. The result is a lot of young adults, many with A-levels, some with degrees, but who can't cook, can't alter or repair their own clothes, who can't put up a shelf or use a screwdriver and daren't look under the bonnet of a car because they lack any practical skills.
I feel that this is the same sort of elitist thinking behind the idea that everyone has the "right" to "earn" a degree, but doesn't take into account the potential usefulness of that degree (which is why a few years ago, one year there was something like 1200 graphics arts graduates chasing about 40 openings in the UK - or at least according to the son of an associate. He is now running a bookmaker's shop for one of the big betting firms)
Metalwork and/or woodwork were once practical skills taught to kids to help them get a job. The skills acquired in metalwork included manual muscle skills, hand-eye co-ordination, teamwork (try doing 2-handed forge work without that), technical drawing and the ability to follow instructions. Then the modernists decided that what was needed was "materials technology", where they could teach kids about plastics and the like. Workshops were used less, then the teaching became more theory than practice, possibly because the teachers employed couldn't actually use the tools or do woodwork or metalwork, so the workshops were used less and less (certainly so at my old school) and were eventually turned over to other "more useful" subjects. I'm told that the same sort of thing happened with home economics and sewing that happened with woodwork and metalwork. The result is a lot of young adults, many with A-levels, some with degrees, but who can't cook, can't alter or repair their own clothes, who can't put up a shelf or use a screwdriver and daren't look under the bonnet of a car because they lack any practical skills.
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My early 60's experience was of a brand new school, with great facilities, all new wood and metal shops, with good staff. We started, did a few weeks, a bit of woodwork, a bit of metalwork and it came to an end due to higher priorities from what I remember. I learned all my practical stuff after leaving and most of it hard won. I loved the lathe work, so much so I bought myself a small metalworking lathe a decade ago.
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Deleted member 174758
Well, Harry, I did woodworking in the 1st and 2nd year at school, then dropped it until the 6th form because I didn't have the time in my schedule. In the 6th form I had the option to do woodwork or metalwork again, but at A-level standard. So I did Engineering with Metalwork which included metalwork, technical drawing, structural design basics, etc. Very interesting and well worth doing - even if you end up becoming a wood butcher.
The school closed the department when the department head retired about 5 years after I finished school. Nobody objected
The school closed the department when the department head retired about 5 years after I finished school. Nobody objected
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Thanks, now I understand it - a grand plan where everything averages out. For every immigrant that lands a job in London, x number of families can reproduce infinitely in Bradford on the wealth he creates. For every immigrant arriving on the beaches of Kent, x number of children can be raped repeatedly in Blackpool.
That seems like very sound economics, but who is overseeing the quotas and keeping the averages average? Is there a panel monitoring the the distribution of the wealth created by the solvent migrant to the insolvent migrant(s), and ensuring that not too many arrive that would put the figures out of balance? Are the figures determined in advance of the immigrants arriving, or are they calculated afterwards? If they are calculated afterwards and the averages found to be un-average what corrections are made?
One million foreign people came to live in Britain last year. Have you got the figures on their earnings and how they are being distributed? I don't want to sound selfish, but will I be getting any of it? How many drug-money laundering kebab shop new start-up businesses will be created in Blackburn on the back of it?
Please do explain, I'm fascinated. If you prefer not to say (maybe you are embarrassed at being so clever) can you direct me to where I can find the information? Who in government can I ask? Would it be worth my while asking Liz Truss and Ritchie Suniak?
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I'm not sure there's much point doing much woodwork or metalwork now, maybe a few hours. Some more hours for cooking, some for electrics, plumbing, building etc; that would do. Call it Domestic Science. Engineering principles too, then if you need to do any of these things you can look up what you need and get on with it, times have changed.
I saw these at a college which does wet trades etc. Quite good to do at 13-14 for 4 Saturdays, I think.
Saturday Academies - Courses for teenagers in Ewell Epsom
Courses for teenagers in Ewell Epsom. Fun and practical four-week courses for 13-16 year olds. Subjects include animals, cooking and SFX make-up.
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No, you really don't.
No that’s wrong.
First class i took at Secondary school was metalwork; the teacher amused us by using a welding torch to show how a copper coin changed colour when heated up - eventually he let us loose on the practical stuff and i made me a hammer, a tack hammer. Still have it 50 years later, battered and beaten but one of the most useful tools in the box.
Woodwork was the best, though. The fantastic aroma of sawdust and varnish in the workshop: made me a bowl which to this day has a few apples in it for snacking. Happy days.
The information is available.
but you are not interested in facts
The Fiscal Impact of Immigration in the UK - Migration Observatory
This briefing gives an overview of research on the impact of immigration on government finances in the UK and explains the main issues related to estimating the fiscal impact of immigration in the UK.
migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk
you could also ask how much money earned from these jobs ends up going back to the homeland: it was a source of constant friction where i worked that Indian and Pakistani labourers would lobby to work overtime and send cash home to families. They'd do this in groups to the exclusion of anyone else and created a closed shop of their own. Bloody annoying.
The trouble with 'information' and 'reports' are that they are always slanted towards the view of those paying for them! What would be the point of paying someone to say the opposite of what you are trying to 'prove'? I’ve seen it done in the public and charity sectors time and time again. I’ve even been a part of it in a few occasions when funders have commissioned a body to do a so-called independent report on progress to secure further funding.The information is available.
but you are not interested in facts
The Fiscal Impact of Immigration in the UK - Migration Observatory
This briefing gives an overview of research on the impact of immigration on government finances in the UK and explains the main issues related to estimating the fiscal impact of immigration in the UK.
you must be confused with those Brexit think tanks funded by right wing libertarian groups
However the Migration observatory, is a trusted source.
here are the sponsors
Funders of the Migration Observatory
Based at the Centre on Migration, Policy and Society (COMPAS) at the University of Oxford, the Migration Observatory provides impartial, independent, authoritative, evidence-based analysis of data on migration and migrants in the UK to inform media, public and policy debates, and to generate...
migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk
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