EICR Faults

[EFLImpudence]

As i repeatedly state on this forum and other forums coding such as this need challenging.

It does. As I said - trouble for the landlord if he knows nothing about such things.

 

[Murdochcat]

It does. As I said - trouble for the landlord if he knows nothing about such things.

You’d like to think that forums for landlords or guidance documents would help BUT as so many people seem to live in caves they’ve only got themselves to blame

AND it’s long over due that NAPIT retracted their code breakers book as it’s far too open to interpretation

The only document landlords should refer to is the BPG

 

[JohnW2]

As i previously stated the OP should challenge the coding ....

As I've told him, he certainly should argue with the electrician about it, even though there is no official way of 'challenging' it as far as the 'landlord legislation' is concerned. However, the EICR situation is totally unsatisfactory in that it is so highly reliant on the personal views, opinions and judgements of the individual inspector. So, although one can argue, it just comes down to a matter of differing opinions

as it’s clearly not correct

As above, in the absence of any official rules and regulation, one can't talk about 'correct' and 'incorrect',since all one is talking about is an individual opinion/judgement - and individual opinions/judgements differ.

It's a crazy system

 

[EFLImpudence]

You’d like to think that forums for landlords or guidance documents would help BUT as so many people seem to live in caves they’ve only got themselves to blame

That's life.

AND it’s long over due that NAPIT retracted their code breakers book as it’s far too open to interpretation

I agree they should but not necessarily for that reason.
It is up to the inspector who should know what he is doing - I realise many don't.

The only document landlords should refer to is the BPG

Why is that any better?

Is it not the same thing from a different body?

 

[Murdochcat]

Is it not the same thing from a different body?

If you’ve never looked at the BPG you should. There are a plethora of different organisations that contributed to the guide and on that basis I think you could consider that they agreed on the statements held within it.


And interestingly Napit are included so their “guide” contradicts this document

The NICEIC direct their sparks to the BPG

End of

 

[EFLImpudence]

The NICEIC direct their sparks to the BPG

Of course they do.

End of

Not really.

 

[Murdochcat]

Not really.

Disagree.

Plastic CU is a C3 if in good condition.
C3 = satisfactory EICR

The end

 

[EFLImpudence]

You seem to have changed what we are disagreeing about.

 

[ericmark]

The Best Practice Guide has changed over the years, but it does have some things which I would question to if it has anything to do with the installation? It says "Inadequate provision of socket outlets" but could also be considered as being lazy, and not unplugging items not in use. The weight on the socket is clearly not good, but one could use an extension lead with 10 sockets to do the same thing, and that is permitted.

It does state:-

I did have a look to see if any pictures of the consumer unit. I have said before that plastic consumer units do not attract a C2 coding, then seen a picture, and realised that is not the only problem.

There is a list, but one can down load the BPG if you want to read the list. But I have seen so many where the MCB does not match the consumer unit, or items like bell transformers have been fitted.

In the main the consumer unit fires are caused by this

which is a design fault

but I have looked at consumer units to try and verify the buss bar is correct, and it is not easy with some models.

 

[morqthana]

However, as I've said, the problem is that, if a C2 has been given for the plastic CU, the legislation does not appear to offer any mechanism for appeal/challenge

But maybe some landlords associations have pockets deep enough to take the electrician to court seeking damages for incompetent work?

 

[EFLImpudence]

But maybe some landlords associations have pockets deep enough to take the electrician to court seeking damages for incompetent work?

How can something that is a matter of opinion (an EICR) be deemed incompetent?

The judgement would be based on other people's opinions - as are the Napit and ESF documents.



Perhaps it would have been better if the landlord safety report legislation were better thought out by people who knew what they were doing.

 

[morqthana]

Anybody coding a perfectly sound plastic CU with a C2 should be ashamed of themselves.

The world is not lacking in people with no shame.

 

[morqthana]

How can something that is a matter of opinion (an EICR) be deemed incompetent?

An "opinion" which runs counter to what the regulations say, and counter to what the government guidelines say.

What next? An electrician's "opinion" that a grey CU is unsafe, and it must be changed to ivory, and if challenged all he has to do is to say "well that's my opinion", and with nothing to justify it, but it stands?

 

[morqthana]

Perhaps it would have been better if the landlord safety report legislation were better thought out by people who knew what they were doing.

Maybe there's an opening for the NRLA etc to have a register of electricians who state that they do not code trivial non-compliances with the current regulations which were OK when the electrics were installed as unsatisfactory?

Going by ericmarks quote, it looks like the regulations themselves say that earlier electrics don't necessarily have to comply with the current regs, so such an approach could be a valid "opinion" wrt a law requiring electrics to meet the standards of the current regs.

Presumably they'll have to amend the law the next time a new version of the regs is published - maybe the landlords associations should start lobbying now for that opportunity to be taken to fix the wording?

 

[EFLImpudence]

An "opinion" which runs counter to what the regulations say, and counter to what the government guidelines say.

Please state the regulation.
Government guidelines are opinions.

What next? An electrician's "opinion" that a grey CU is unsafe, and it must be changed to ivory, and if challenged all he has to do is to say "well that's my opinion", and with nothing to justify it, but it stands?

So, what would you do if that was stated on an EICR?