EU unhappy with astrazeneca

Robby...Keep that persecusion complex under control.
No persecution complex, but when someone claims not to be entering the discussion, but insists on leaving little piles of non-constructive poo about, it suggests that they have a 'scat' fetish, and are incapable of entering a discussion on a constructive basis.
If Dangee wants to reinforce the appearance that he has a scat fetish, then he'll continue to leave his little piles of poo about.
 
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Another point is the reporting on the speech. It didn't report all of the points she made. Then why threaten action, so far that is what it is a threat. That is probably due to some conversation between AZ and the EU but only probably. The main point is missing vaccination shots. One of the points she laboured on was lack of transparency. It seems they can't even publish contracts without the sources agreement and it was AZ that redacted it. Contacts are often confidential as when there are several of them serving different customers there can be distinct differences.

Then the politics. Pretend you are an EU person and they are going at one rate and us at another. What will an EU person think? How can that be cleared up - easy show that the UK has nothing to do with the problem it's all down to AZ ;) which it is. Our lot let us know that they are staying out of the argument and later that our plant can supply the EU. Backed up on the TV by a political none entity rather than one of the main men by using rather carefully chosen words. Still no real details though.
 
, and all legal experts have their specialities
But it was you that said legal experts win the argument, not me.

Whatever the detail is, we come back to the basic facts:

Kate Bingham has done a fantastic job of picking vaccine winners and backing them early, the EU have not.

The problem for the EU is they have a duty to represent 27 countries, so that puts a responsibility on them to secure the best deal.....which means longer negotiations. UK simply paid a higher price and stuck it's order in.

This govt has made some howling failures over the past 12 months, but on vaccines they've done an amazing job.....for the first time we can call it world beating without taking the pizz.

I actually wonder if the governments terrible Covid response has led them to throw the kitchen sink at vaccines to get them out of the hole.....which given the new variants could well be the case.
 
But it was you that said legal experts win the argument, not me.
Whatever the detail is, we come back to the basic facts:
Kate Bingham has done a fantastic job of picking vaccine winners and backing them early, the EU have not.
We'll never know about the losers. And so many runners have been backed that in roulette terms, when you're gambling on multiple possibilities, you're gambling against yourself. Therefore, logically, you are reducing your odds of losing, but at much greater cost. Of course, in roulette terms, only one can be a winner, but in the development of vaccines if one works there's a good bet that they'll all work pretty much.
Fortunately and coincidentally, AZ have proved a winner for UK and a face-loser for EU, but only really due to the furore created by Brexiteers claiming it as a failure of EU.
Agreed the temporary consideration of invoking Article 16 was a monumental mistake. But as far as I can see, that has been their only real mistake.

The problem for the EU is they have a duty to represent 27 countries, so that puts a responsibility on them to secure the best deal.....which means longer negotiations. UK simply paid a higher price and stuck it's order in.
The situation between AZ and EU would have been no more favourable if the member nations had made their own deals with AZ.
Indeed, it probably would have been far, far worse.
If the two biggest suppliers fall short of expected supply, you can't blame the customer. You can inspect the contract to identify the responsibility for resolving the problems.
EU just want to be assured that AZ (and other suppliers) have not, or are not diverting supplies to other customers.

This govt has made some howling failures over the past 12 months, but on vaccines they've done an amazing job.....for the first time we can call it world beating without taking the pizz.
Agreed, they have done a good job. It could easily have all come crashing down. They were fortunate, and needed that outcome due to the previous mistakes causing the unacceptable mortality rate.
Don't forget, the AZ vaccine is still approved on limited clinical trials. Hence the decision by US not to approve it yet, (their system requires their own testing regime), and Germany and France not using the vaccine for over-65s.

I actually wonder if the governments terrible Covid response has led them to throw the kitchen sink at vaccines to get them out of the hole.....which given the new variants could well be the case.
Let us hope that the eventual outcome will be beneficial for all concerned. It's a global problem, not a competition.
To paraphrase the Brexit mantra, nothing is resolved until everyone is protected.
 
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More UK advanced planning and foresight, more French (and EU) lack of planning or foresight :rolleyes:

"The French media is asking questions about why a French pharma firm has promised 100 million doses of its in-development Covid vaccine to the UK, when not a single order has yet been placed by France or the EU.

The Franco-Austrian Valneva - based near Nantes - has had substantial UK government financial aid of £14m to scale up its production site at Livingston in Scotland.

It also had UK help to roll out phase one and two trials of its viral vector vaccine. Results of these are due in the coming weeks and it’s hoped production could start in late summer.

Valneva director general Franck Grimaud said on BFMTV: "When we announced that we were developing our vaccine last April, we contacted several governments and institutions. It was the UK which was the first to give a comprehensive response, and we signed a pre-accord with them in July."

"It’s a failure for France. It hurts to see this beautiful business taking off for the UK," says Christelle Morancais, president of the Pays de la Loire region, who says she alerted the French government last June. "This company had solutions. [French President Emmanuel] Macron says we are at war - well in war you need different methods from our bureaucratic, technocratic form-filling."

Les Echos financial daily says: "Why has the French government not expressed interest in the Valneva project, leaving it to the British government to offer financial support and - logically therefore - reap the benefits a privileged partner?"

From BBC news
 
More UK advanced planning and foresight, more French (and EU) lack of planning or foresight :rolleyes:

"The French media is asking questions about why a French pharma firm has promised 100 million doses of its in-development Covid vaccine to the UK, when not a single order has yet been placed by France or the EU.

The Franco-Austrian Valneva - based near Nantes - has had substantial UK government financial aid of £14m to scale up its production site at Livingston in Scotland.

It also had UK help to roll out phase one and two trials of its viral vector vaccine. Results of these are due in the coming weeks and it’s hoped production could start in late summer.

Valneva director general Franck Grimaud said on BFMTV: "When we announced that we were developing our vaccine last April, we contacted several governments and institutions. It was the UK which was the first to give a comprehensive response, and we signed a pre-accord with them in July."

"It’s a failure for France. It hurts to see this beautiful business taking off for the UK," says Christelle Morancais, president of the Pays de la Loire region, who says she alerted the French government last June. "This company had solutions. [French President Emmanuel] Macron says we are at war - well in war you need different methods from our bureaucratic, technocratic form-filling."

Les Echos financial daily says: "Why has the French government not expressed interest in the Valneva project, leaving it to the British government to offer financial support and - logically therefore - reap the benefits a privileged partner?"

From BBC news
How about a link to the article?
Or at least separating the BBC article from the Les Echos article.
Unless BBC are now quoting other media sources?
 
I actually wonder if the governments terrible Covid response has led them to throw the kitchen sink at vaccines to get them out of the hole.....which given the new variants could well be the case.

They had a south african medical man on yesterday asking why it was that vaccine effectiveness dropped to <50% for them against their strain while it appeared to be higher for some other countries. He didn't mention outcome though so it might be down to showing symptoms which is ok. Hospital and death aren't ok.
 
LOL

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Your gems do make me laugh.
Hospitals and death usually aren't OK. :whistle:

In context what I posted is 100% ok. It relates to covid and is the gov's attitude concerning vaccinations. It is also relevant to what the SA gent said as he did not provide that information.

People who read like you have and can't put it into context lack comprehension skills. To rather serious degree as well. Or think they are being clever.
 
In context what I posted is 100% ok. It relates to covid and is the gov's attitude concerning vaccinations. It is also relevant to what the SA gent said as he did not provide that information.

People who read like you have and can't put it into context lack comprehension skills. To rather serious degree as well. Or think they are being clever.
I thought I'd intentionally and obviously taken it out of context.
And/or I thought I was being humorous.
 
More news that highlights how the EU works ;) that some will see in 2 ways and some yet another.

EU medical end AZ for anybody. France have decided only those under 65 as insufficient information on effectiveness.

One of the makers who have finished their testing recently mentioned an interesting factor. They were lucky that they were testing when infection rates were higher than normal. Also that there were more variations of the virus about. The other one IMHO is less probability involved in determining it's effectiveness as numbers infected in the control and the had it group will be higher..
 
Positive news reported today about the AZ vaccine substantially reducing the likelihood of onward transmission by people who have had a single dose.

Also positive is confirmation that a single dose has been measured as giving at least 76% efficacy for 12 weeks with no reduction in efficacy over that time period.

But the French and Germans won't give it to their over 65s.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55913913
 
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