Foreigners and the NHS

[Roger928]

please lets see your evidence

Where is your evidence to prove and support this claim...

Only 96 nurses joined the NHS from other European nations in December 2016 – a drop from 1,304 in July, the month after the referendum...

Sounds like a typical spurious tabloid porkie.
Can you provide any evidence?

 

[blightymam]

I don't

However, when a problem arises as a direct result of the Brexit vote, why would you wish to prevent me mentioning it?

It's not news that Europeans have been abused, attacked and even murdered since the Brexit vote.

It's not news that they are feeling unwelcome and being encouraged to prepare to leave.

And it's not news that the NHS relies on foreign workers.

You do.

You've ignored other points been made here about reasons for the NHS being a bit buggered. Thing is these things that were going to cause us trouble were put in motion long before the referendum was on the cards. Years.

Brexit has bought the worse out in some people, obsessive people who have forgotten how it is to be tolerant to each other, no matter what side they happened to vote. It doesn't have to mean that this is going to be the way things will be forever.

Nobody can argue that losing some hospital staff is a bad thing (I think I read somewhere that nurses recruited from overseas is something like 13% of all nurses in the UK), but I am more interested in seeing what our government are going to do about it, not just now but long term. Losing staff because of whatever reason isn't good, but what is less good is our government putting us in that position in the first place.

Cutting training places in the past - docs too. Making nurses, midwives etc have to pay at uni (when until this Autumn it was a NHS bursary) isn't a good move is it? Nurses applications went down 25% since bursaries were axed according to some newspapers. Oh and then there was the news at Christmas (I think) that Hunt is still cutting the funding and hundreds of jobs will be lost - including nurses.
So what's going on?

Quite frankly, you're being angry with the wrong people.

 

[Roger928]

Nobody can argue that losing some hospital staff is a bad thing

I would argue its a bad thing. Especially if its frontline nursing staff that's being lost.
When a hospital loses staff of that calibre patients are the first to suffer.

 

[blightymam]

I would argue its a bad thing. Especially if its frontline nursing staff that's being lost.
When a hospital loses staff of that calibre patients are the first to suffer.

Sorry, I meant to say isn't a bad thing. Apologies.

I had written it correctly earlier!

Brexit - Of course it's not good if we lose good nurses and doctors.

 

[noseall]

Sorry, I meant to say isn't a bad thing. Apologies.

I had written it correctly earlier!

Those damn negatives.

 

[JohnD]

and its the Guardian as well now if it were the daily Mail it might be more believable

I'm glad you said that, dummy

"Number of European nurses registering to work in the UK has fallen by 92% following Brexit

• Just 101 nurses from EU nations registered to work in Britain in December 2016
• But this figure was 1,304 in July - the month directly following the referendum
• The NHS already has 24,000 nursing vacancies advertised across the country"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4172912/Brexit-DEADLY.html

See also your favourite
"BREXIT HITS NHS
Number of European nurses registering to work in Britain falls by 90 PER CENT as workers shun NHS following Brexit vote"
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2729141/nhs-number-of-european-nurses-registering-to-work-in-britain-falls-by-90-per-cent-as-workers-shun-nhs-following-brexit-vote/

Even the Torygraph!
"Number of EU nurses coming to UK falls 90 per cent since Brexit vote"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/25/number-eu-nurses-coming-uk-falls-90-per-cent-since-brexit-vote/

"EU nurses registering in UK falls by 90% post-Brexit
The number of European nurses registering to work in Britain has fallen by more than 90 percent since last June's Brexit vote, the British Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) told AFP on Friday.
A total of 101 nurses and midwives from EU nations registered in December, compared with 1,304 in July, the month after the referendum, according to the NMC."
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-01-eu-nurses-registering-uk-falls.html

And the anti-EU Express
"NURSES from across the EU are choosing not to come to Britain, according to new figures which show a 90 per cent drop in the number of nurses registering to work in the UK."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/758988/eu-nurses-work-Britain-NHS-drops-90-per-cent-Brexit-europe-nursing-midwifery-council

You'd better get some more sand to bury your head in.

 

[transam]

Or the Sun

you are easily lead


Dummy

incidentally the world is round . not flat

 

[JohnD]

Hunt is still cutting the funding and hundreds of jobs will be lost - including nurses.
So what's going on?

Didn't you know?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...et-replacement-direct-democracy-a6865306.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-johnson-for-misleading-voters-a7065981.html

 

[Doggit]

nothing will improve the NHS unless massive amounts of money are spent on it , in excess of 2 billion a year extra needs to be spent just to stand still

Standard thinking Transam, but completely wrong I'm afraid. No matter how much money you throw at the NHS, it will never work properly, because it's run by people that are more interested in maintaining their nice cushy jobs, rather than running their business's properly. The government sets targets, so they manipulate the system to reach the targets, and don't worry about any problems they then cause. Gone are the days when nursing was seen as a vocation, and it's now just a job where you protect you're ass if you screw up, which most invariably do.

And no matter how much anyone in the NHS screws up, they just get moved to a different job, and keep the cushy salary and benefits. Whistleblowers get canned, and no one takes the blame, and the govenment of the day just sets more targets to make sure it doesn't happen again, and so more managers get taken on to oversee the targets.

Gordon Brown saddled hospitals with PFI initiative that will take another 15 years to pay off those debts, and at £600 to change a lightbulb, you can see why more money will just get swallowed up.

If the tax system were altered so that tax and NI were lumped into one, and then reduced so that there was a seperate NHS tax, then standard tax would then be at 32%, so that's not going to happen. The NHS will go from crisis to crisis until some far sighted chancellor redesigns the way it's run, which will be a hell of a battle with whovers health secretary at the time.

And at the end of it, everyone now expects compensation when something goes wrong, and I hate to think how much gets paid to the laywers, yet there are reports of hospitals allowing these ambulance chasers to actually advertise in the hospitals, so I hate to think how much crazier things are going to get.

But going back to the start of this thread, in 2015, there was 315,000 nurses in the NHS, and we've had maybe a 1000 less applying since brexit, big deal in the greater scheme of things.

 

[blightymam]

But going back to the start of this thread, in 2015, there was 315,000 nurses in the NHS, and we've had maybe a 1000 less applying since brexit, big deal in the greater scheme of things.

And just under 10,000 less applications from would-be student nurses because of the bursary being axed by government.

Hmmmm......!

 

[EFLImpudence]

That's somewhat misleading - or unclear or unhelpful.

July was after Brexit.
I don't know; is December usually the fewest?
101 is not 8% of 1,304 so to what figures are they referring?

What about August, September, October, November, January, and February?


Edit - forgot October.

 

[Doggit]

Quite frankly, you're being angry with the wrong people

Not at all, he's just trying to prove that his opinion of Brexit is right, and this isn't the last thread we'll hear from him about it.

 

[blightymam]

Not at all, he's just trying to prove that his opinion of Brexit is right, and this isn't the last thread we'll hear from him about it.

Gawd help us

 

[JohnD]

I wish someone would show dog the "ignore" button.

Why don't you show him, blighty?

 

[Doggit]

Doesn't work that way Blighty. As the Robbie Williams song goes, I talked to God, and he just laughed at my plans.

God helps those who help themselves, and until we all ignore the posts, they'll just on keep coming. On the other hand, I've seen some interesting points on here, so maybe there is a higher plan after all.