Gas boilers

[^woody^]

It will. Be 2045 before petrol and diesel cars will be off the road

It's not just the production, we have more and more places introducing congestion zones, so it may well be that cars need to be changed much sooner if they are to be used in certain areas.

BMW also announced today that they are shifting production of their German factories to electric motors etc and combustion engines will be moved the the UK and Austria. The problem with this is that when the time comes, German factories will be ahead of the game.

 

[ajohn]

Thought hydrogen was the new “in thing”?

It's not cheap stuff to make.

When natural gas started being used there were various murmurs about hydrogen being in it and brittle pipe. Think it goes by the name hydrogen embrittlement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement

Wow I remembered correctly.

Cars and hardly modified were run on metal hydrides yonks ago. They absorb it and give it off when heated. It can work out. Petrol engines could be modified to run on it directly. Hindenburg cars maybe? Pass, much the same was thought about petrol.

 

[ajohn]

Hybrids have been mentioned very recently - might be able to continue using them. They could cut city pollution dramatically and also make a huge difference in any traffic jams anywhere. Now that approach very probably is feasible on plug in ones.

Or - seriously limit people mileage.

Or and it sounds like they are going to do this anyway generate lots more electricity and I do mean lots more. Rolls Royce are interested in making mini reactors. Then maybe update the national grid to carry it.

 

[Ihavenojob]

It will be classed as progress.

Schlimmbesserung

 

[JohnD]

Rolls Royce are interested in making mini reactors.

I have an idea they might be a convenient size for putting in submarines or naval ships.

They are talking about modular design and the cost per build dropping as numbers increase.

PWR were designed with similar purpose in mind, and the Electricity consumer ended up paying for their development.

 

[Dangee]

Hi John!!! How are you? What you been up to today?

 

[durhamplumber]

Hi John!!! How are you? What you been up to today?

Been to Moscow underground station.

 

[ajohn]

I have an idea they might be a convenient size for putting in submarines or naval ships.

Bit smaller and they could put them in buses and trains. Some how I think not.

Lots of separate nuc. power would simplify updating the grid. I'd be inclined to wonder about more weapon sales to be honest.

 

[IT Minion]

I have an idea they might be a convenient size for putting in submarines or naval ships.

They are talking about modular design and the cost per build dropping as numbers increase.

PWR were designed with similar purpose in mind, and the Electricity consumer ended up paying for their development.

Nah, these ones are too big and heavy for shipping use.

PWR started life as a power unit for nuclear subs, then got scaled up for use as stationary power systems. There are a few nuclear powered ships but the nuclear engines are too man power intensive and too nerve wracking for ports to make them a commercial success.

By 2030 there'll be even cheaper wind and solar power, I'd be surprised if they make financial sense.

 

[^woody^]

By 2030 there'll be even cheaper wind and solar power, I'd be surprised if they make financial sense.

WTF?
It's going to be sunnier all day throughout the year and windier all night long?

The big limitation with wind power (apart from the size, the need for wind, the need to not too much wind, the miles of space required, the tree huggers moaning about the view, the birdies moaning about the bird routes, everyone else moaning about the noise) is that the loss of power from the cables in getting the energy from the turbine to the end user is massive.

The big limitation with solar power is that the UK needs to move down nearer the equator.

 

[IT Minion]

WTF?
It's going to be sunnier all day throughout the year and windier all night long?

The big limitation with wind power (apart from the size, the need for wind, the need to not too much wind, the miles of space required, the tree huggers moaning about the view, the birdies moaning about the bird routes, everyone else moaning about the noise) is that the loss of power from the cables in getting the energy from the turbine to the end user is massive.

The big limitation with solar power is that the UK needs to move down nearer the equator.

Rubbish.

Losses in the cables going from turbine to shore aren't a big deal. Even if they were then adding another turbine or two covers it. The real problem with wind is that it's not dispatchable, you can't turn it on when you need it.

Solars problem is that it's crap in the winter. They're cheap enough that even only working for half the year they pay their way.

Seasonal Intermittency is covered by overprovisioning and hydrogen splitting. Daily by big batteries, liquid air, pumped storage, flow batteries or lumps of concrete in mine shafts.

Also, nuclear is currently more expensive than every other source of power there is. The small modular ones are attempting to bring that, and the deployment time, down but nuclear has a long glorious history of promising much and delivering at a much higher price.

 

[fillyboy]

Rubbish.

Losses in the cables going from turbine to shore aren't a big deal. Even if they were then adding another turbine or two covers it. The real problem with wind is that it's not dispatchable, you can't turn it on when you need it.

Solars problem is that it's crap in the winter. They're cheap enough that even only working for half the year they pay their way.

Seasonal Intermittency is covered by overprovisioning and hydrogen splitting. Daily by big batteries, liquid air, pumped storage, flow batteries or lumps of concrete in mine shafts.

Also, nuclear is currently more expensive than every other source of power there is. The small modular ones are attempting to bring that, and the deployment time, down but nuclear has a long glorious history of promising much and delivering at a much higher price.

Interesting, you say 'rubbish' and then go on to agree with everything woody said.

 

[IT Minion]

Interesting, you say 'rubbish' and then go on to agree with everything woody said.

He said losses in power cables is the worst thing. When it isn't a problem at all.

He implied solar is useless, when it isn't.

Woody isn't wrong on everything, he just wanted to pick an argument.

 

[Bodgedbuild]

WTF?
It's going to be sunnier all day throughout the year and windier all night long?

The big limitation with wind power (apart from the size, the need for wind, the need to not too much wind, the miles of space required, the tree huggers moaning about the view, the birdies moaning about the bird routes, everyone else moaning about the noise) is that the loss of power from the cables in getting the energy from the turbine to the end user is massive.

The big limitation with solar power is that the UK needs to move down nearer the equator.

Bang on, also the powers that be seem to ignore how bad wind turbines are to recycle once their 20 year life is over. Something like 10 tonnes of non-recyclable composite material for every megawatt of installed capacity and that is before we mention Sulphur hexafluoride that is used to contain arcing in the wind turbine switch gear, its over 23000 times worse than Co2 for global warming and stays in the atmosphere for a 1000 years, we are going to get some real nasty stuff kicking about as these thing approach end of life.

 

[^woody^]

He said losses in power cables is the worst thing. When it isn't a problem at all.

It's a massive problem.

People don't want turbines on land because of the eyesore issue. So moving them out to sea means that there is a massive maintenance problem and a loss of generated power before the cables even make land. Then it's only good to travel relatively locally. The further inland you go, the more either locally generated wind power is needed, or bigger more powerful power stations are required. It's basic physics.