gas safety and other trades, PLEASE READ

[OwainDIYer]

I think you need to change the whole current ethos of training that a five day course in something and a piece of paper gives anyone an understanding of how buildings work and how different services and structures interact.

The industry with its love of pseudo specialisation in the name of trade protection is to blame as very often on small jobs there is no one taking or competent to take overall responsibility for a job. Having an NVQ Level 1 in Squirty Foam Application is not a substitute for being able to build a house from working drawings and general principles.

And not enclosing a boiler flue or obstructing an air vent should not just be 'widely known' in whatever industry - it should be common sense - and that applies to the householder/client as much as the tradesperson.

 

[mattysupra]

your going back to what you presume is common sense tho. We cant presume that everyone has the same sort of common sence.

Refering back to a vent in a floor that a plumber has installed, well should the plumber know how to install the vent in floor?

If so then how come so many plumbers cause so much damage due to not installing the vent correctly?

I mean its simple isn't it? cut a hole and screw the vent down? This can cause thousands of pounds worth of damage!

 

[spraggo]

i dont think alot of you understand what sort of basic info im trying to gather here.


As already stated by someone that they have seen consevatories installed to close to a flue or the one i see most days on failed floors is conservatories blocking air bricks.

now this is common knowledge that you dont do this? yes?

Well you would think so. But as it happens every day some people dont know.

Im trying to find out the basic info that gets missed so we can change the way people are trained to point out issues that most think is common knowledge.


There is plenty of stuff that plumbers do that can cause many issues that i could say "well thats obvious you should not of done that" but the plumber is not educated in what ever issue he has caused for the other trade.


Why is that every other trade i speak to on building sites etc will discuss issues with me so we can educate each other but the only trade that does not want to help improve is the plumbing trade?

Im asking for basic info that plumbers "presume" other trades should know.

Im not asking for info on how to calculate vent sizes etc or info on what size a flue should be, im after basic info that you lot must see other trades do wrong that effects yourselves.

I repeat, In most cases where a gas appliance is installed, the customer will have the installation and user instructions to hand, which will advise you on ventillation requirements for same. (Even gas cookers)

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

BS5440 part 1 2 & 3 would be good documents to read.

 

[mattysupra]

BS5440 part 1 2 & 3 would be good documents to read.

What is covered in these?

Thanks for that by the way.

 

[kirkgas]

when anyone alters a room containing a gas appliance where the alterations would render the appliance unsafe they have contravened Reg 8 of the Gas regs and are liable to prosecution,

it doesnt matter if they dont know the regs it is their responsibility to ensure any work they do leaves the customers in a potentially unsafe situation, any alterations they do which may reduce safety should only be taken after consultation with a gas engineer,

sadly too many contractors ignore their responsiblity on this front, it wont reduce their liability if something happens

 

[kirkgas]

BS5440 part 1 2 & 3 would be good documents to read.

what is BS5440-3

 

[mattysupra]

when anyone alters a room containing a gas appliance where the alterations would render the appliance unsafe they have contravened Reg 8 of the Gas regs

Where can i get a copy of the regs from please ?


A quick question for you as you have underlined the example of a window fitter. If the fitter was to install the window and seal it up as to his standards, well is it his issue or the plumbers for not installing some other type of ventalation when installing in the first place and relying on a opening window?

The next person to live in the house may be disabled and not be able to reach the window to open it etc.

 

[mattysupra]

1 more question for you lot.

Can a kitchen fitter , floorlayer etc remove and refit a gas cooker when its plumbed in on one of them self sealing gas valves?

 

[Gasop]

Has no one twigged yet?

This thread could go on forever, it HAS to be a plucking wind up

 

[mattysupra]

Has no one twigged yet?

This thread could go on forever, it HAS to be a plucking wind up

Belive it or not , its not a wind up.


The questions im asking are the sort of questions i get asked on a daily basis.

 

[mattysupra]

1 more question for you lot.

Can a kitchen fitter , floorlayer etc remove and refit a gas cooker when its plumbed in on one of them self sealing gas valves?

Can no one even answer this simply question for me?

It really is hard work getting any info out of you lot.

 

[gasbanni]

1 more question for you lot.

Can a kitchen fitter , floorlayer etc remove and refit a gas cooker when its plumbed in on one of them self sealing gas valves?

No, the flexible hose is designed to allow the cooker to be pulled out for cleaning purposes the fact thast the bayonet can be undone should not mean that it should be.

If its taken out and refitted, unless its tested ihow can it be determined its not leaking ?

I know people do disconnect and reconnect but that wasn't your question.

 

[mattysupra]

1 more question for you lot.

Can a kitchen fitter , floorlayer etc remove and refit a gas cooker when its plumbed in on one of them self sealing gas valves?

No, the flexible hose is designed to allow the cooker to be pulled out for cleaning purposes the fact thast the bayonet can be undone should not mean that it should be.

If its taken out and refitted, unless its tested ihow can it be determined its not leaking ?

I know people do disconnect and reconnect but that wasn't your question.

Right thanks.

So unless gas safe approved you CAN NOT remove the cooker from the self sealing fitting or reconnect for that matter.

Now this is one of the points to this thread, Most installers are under the impression that they are allowed to do this and thats why its a self sealing joint. They seem to think that as they are not unbolting etc that they are allowed. To be 100% honest i belived they was allowed also as that is what i have been told over the years. Guess its one of them 'old wifes tales'


Right at least im finally getting some where now. Its taken 2 pages but i have come away with something constructive so far!



[[/u]

 

[kirkgas]

You couldn't even start to answer the question on a diy forum, there's just too many variables, and not just with Gas.

Building regs, cover things like an open-able window or door and or extractors.

Every boiler is different as is every gas fire and cooker/hob, and everyone must comply with the manufacturers instructions for that appliance.

As such no two jobs will ever be the same, and it's got to be down to the tradesmen altering the room/building (doing the work) to get the relevant information that's applicable to the job.

OK some common things like boxing gas pipes in with no duct ventilation, should be general knowledge, but the rest is just plain common sense, if there's a fire in a room to ask questions for example.

Underfloor ventilation is frowned upon, because it gets blocked with lint, dust, dog and cats hair etc.

who frowns upon it, there are thousands of floor vents, and surely if they are the correct size and configuration then they wont get any more blocked than wall vents