gas safety and other trades, PLEASE READ

[kirkgas]

when anyone alters a room containing a gas appliance where the alterations would render the appliance unsafe they have contravened Reg 8 of the Gas regs

Where can i get a copy of the regs from please ?
send me a PM with your email address and i will send you a copy[/u

]A quick question for you as you have underlined the example of a window fitter. If the fitter was to install the window and seal it up as to his standards, well is it his issue or the plumbers for not installing some other type of ventalation when installing in the first place and relying on a opening window?
it is the window fitters problem 100%, the original installer chose the option of the window vent which is well within his rights, the window fitter has contravened Reg 8
The next person to live in the house may be disabled and not be able to reach the window to open it etc.

the vent in the window will be permanently open if it is a gas vent, it isnt an option for any customer to open/close a window vent

 

[kirkgas]

here you go Reg 8
Regulation 8 Existing gas fittings
(1) No person shall make any alteration to any premises in which a gas
fitting or gas storage vessel is fitted if that alteration would adversely affect the
safety of the fitting or vessel in such a manner that, if the fitting or the vessel had
been installed after the alteration, there would have been a contravention of, or
failure to comply with, these Regulations.
82 This regulation embraces a wide range of physical alterations to premises that
might affect the safety of an existing gas fitting or gas storage vessel installed in the
premises where the alteration is to be made (see paragraph 87). Before a significant
alteration is made to premises where a gas appliance is installed, eg installation
or removal of windows, air bricks, extractor fan units etc, any implications for gas
appliance/fitting safety need to be properly addressed (see paragraphs 83-87).
Similarly, prior consideration needs to be given to the possible effect of any
modification, such as a building extension, on the safety of a gas storage vessel
(eg from any reduction in separation distances and standards of ventilation), or
on service pipework (for example, the risk of damage to buried pipework from
strain/weight imposed upon it) - see also regulations 6(7)-(8), 7(1) and 19(5).
Requirements of Building Regulations, eg concerning ventilation and flues, should
also be taken into account, as appropriate. Reference should also be made to
Guidance
7(1)
Guidance
7(2)
Guidance
7(3)
Guidance
8(1)
Regulation
7(2)
Regulation
7(3)
Regulation
8(1)
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regulation 36(11)-(12) concerning duties on landlords in respect of any room to be
converted into sleeping accommodation.
83 Regulation 8(1) applies to householders, builders, gas installers etc, and is
supplementary to any requirements under the Construction (Design and
Management) Regulations 2007. The implications of any change to premises for
safety of a gas fitting or gas storage vessel need to be considered systematically as
part of the overall work planning process.
84 In some cases, the effects of particular work for gas safety may be obvious.
For example, where a chimney is being reduced in height or capped, its
effectiveness in removing flue gases may be drastically affected. Before such work
is started, it needs to be established whether, or not, the chimney is active and, if
so, allowance made for this in the way the work is carried out. This may include
planning for appliances to be disconnected before work commences, preventing
debris falling or being thrown down the chimney, and ensuring appliances are
tested for safety after the work has been completed. (Disconnection/testing of
appliances should only be carried out by someone who is, or is employed by, a
member of an HSE approved class of persons under regulation 3, eg a CORGIregistered
installer.) Similar consideration needs to be given to any proposed
alterations which might affect operation of a flue system, eg fitting a flue liner or
terminal.
85 In other cases, the effects of the work may not be so obvious. For example,
when fitting double glazing or cavity wall insulation, the removal of fixed permanent
ventilation, such as air bricks, and replacement with closeable ventilation louvres (in
contravention of standards) or blockage of vents by insulation material, can lead to
danger from reduced ventilation/incomplete combustion. Equally, fitting extractor
fans can lead to the pull on flues being overcome and flue products being sucked
back into premises. Moreover, the enclosure of an existing flue terminal within a
new extension or conservatory (again in contravention of standards) can lead to flue
gases becoming entrapped.
86 Irrespective of how obvious the implications of the work are for gas safety, the
people involved need to keep these matters in mind, and ensure they are properly
addressed when alterations to premises are planned.
87 Regulation 8(1) applies only to the alteration of premises in which the gas
appliance concerned is installed, ie it does not cover any alteration to adjoining
premises. Gas appliances/storage vessels should be installed so that safety cannot
be affected by any future developments, eg building extensions, on adjoining
property. For example, a flue should be located at a safe distance from any site
boundary, so that in event of any development on a neighbouring site (which could
extend up to the boundary), the flue will continue to operate properly and discharge
of combustion products will not present a hazard to any person (see regulation 27
and Appendix 1).
(2) No person shall do anything which would affect a gas fitting or any flue
or means of ventilation used in connection with the fitting in such a manner that the
subsequent use of the fitting might constitute a danger to any person, except that
this paragraph does not apply to an alteration to premises.
88 This regulation applies to everyone, not just gas installers. It supplements
regulation 8(1), by prohibiting other activities (ie except alteration to premises)
which have the potential to compromise safety; this might for instance include
modifications which cause blockage/obstruction of an air supply vent or flue,
or incorrect installation of an air extraction or condensation control unit. As with
regulation 8(1), it is essential for the implications of any such change or modification
Guidance
8(1)
Regulation
8(2)
Guidance
8(2)
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to be properly addressed, before work is commenced, to ensure that gas safety
cannot be prejudiced in any way.
89 Modification of any gas fitting should be made only by a competent person
who is, or is employed by, a member of an HSE approved class of persons (eg
CORGI-registered) under regulation 3(3). Alterations not comprising ‘work’ on a gas
fitting but which nevertheless may affect gas safety, eg a change to room ventilation
provisions, should also be made only by a person with the required competence.
Similarly, any significant modification needs to be checked by a competent person
before the gas fitting concerned is taken into use, to ensure that appropriate
standards have been met and safety has not been compromised (see regulation
26(9)).
(3) In relation to any place of work under his control, an employer or a
self-employed person shall ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that the
provisions of paragraphs (1) and (2) are complied with.
90 It is recommended that a responsible person, eg a principal contractor,
foreman, site manager or other person with overall control of the work, is
nominated to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, compliance with
regulation 8(1) and (2).

 

[mattysupra]

thanks very much for that.


Refering back to the window and vents, i have miss understood what someone was saying about a window vent obviously.

I presummed they ment a opening window or one of them old school plastic through window vents that you can shut off if you please.

I take it that a vent fitted by a gas installer cant be closed as that would defeat the point?

 

[Agile]

A gas vent should not be closable and should be marked "Gas vent, do not obstruct".

Although vents in windows have been used they are not ideal and certainly not considered by many to be an example of good workmanship.

One broken windon and an itinerant Glazier might come and replace with a sheet of clear 4mm float glass WITHOUT any vent rendering any open flued gas appliance immediately dangerous.

 

[mattysupra]

A gas vent should not be closable and should be marked "Gas vent, do not obstruct".

Although vents in windows have been used they are not ideal and certainly not considered by many to be an example of good workmanship.

One broken windon and an itinerant Glazier might come and replace with a sheet of clear 4mm float glass WITHOUT any vent rendering any open flued gas appliance immediately dangerous.

Thanks for putting that up! That basically what im talking about!

 

[gasbanni]

http://books.hse.gov.uk/hse/public/saleproduct.jsf?catalogueCode=9780717616350


free download gives practical advice as to the regulations, defines the regs in terms easily understood.

To clarify ~ opening door or window means just that, it does not mean trickle ventilation incorporated in to a modern double glazed unit.


Most cooking appliances do not require additional ventilation even if its got eight burners on the hotplate !!!

Floor ventilation tends to be a thing of the past as simply to put a hole in the floor is not acceptable under current regs as trunking has to be installed to an exterior vent.

 

[libby lou lou]

BS5440 part 1 2 & 3 would be good documents to read.

What is covered in these?

Thanks for that by the way.

READ THE fickers if you half a brain,What the hell the rest of your are answer his questions for, i do n't know

 

[gasbanni]

BS5440 part 1 2 & 3 would be good documents to read.

What is covered in these?

Thanks for that by the way.

READ THE fickers if you half a brain,What the hell the rest of your are answer his questions for, i do n't know

Been having a little drink have we ?

 

[mattysupra]

BS5440 part 1 2 & 3 would be good documents to read.

What is covered in these?

Thanks for that by the way.

READ THE fickers if you half a brain,What the hell the rest of your are answer his questions for, i do n't know

Why are there so many idiots in the plumbing section of this forum?

Some of you chaps have been a great help but it seems to me that 90% of the people on here are just idiots. Do you get the option to go on a Free idiot course or something when training to be a plumber?

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

BS5440 part 1 2 & 3 would be good documents to read.

What is covered in these?

Thanks for that by the way.

READ THE fickers if you half a brain,What the hell the rest of your are answer his questions for, i do n't know

Why are there so many idiots in the plumbing section of this forum?

Some of you chaps have been a great help but it seems to me that 90% of the people on here are just idiots. Do you get the option to go on a Free idiot course or something when training to be a plumber?

No, we have to fekin pay for our idiots course like we do for every other sodding course we "don't" want to but "have" to go on

People that come on here should be grateful that they get "any" "free" information at all, I have "had" to work 40 years and do numerous "expensive" courses just to be able to carry on doing my job, I have just spent 3.5 very stressfull expensive days doing just that, some of it re-learning "words" because the BS Docs have had to have a lot changed because some foreign lands don't have a word for "soundness", yes as always "we" are altering "our" stuff to suit other countries "again", and "I" end up paying for it and re-learning crap, and people wonder why I am like I am

 

[expertgasman]

BS5440 part 1 2 & 3 would be good documents to read.

What is covered in these?

Thanks for that by the way.

READ THE fickers if you half a brain,What the hell the rest of your are answer his questions for, i do n't know

Why are there so many idiots in the plumbing section of this forum?

Some of you chaps have been a great help but it seems to me that 90% of the people on here are just idiots. Do you get the option to go on a Free idiot course or something when training to be a plumber?[/quote

No, Matty, you are the idiot. You are supposed to be an Assessor, and understand that a little knowledge is sometimes worse than none. You appear to want to "educate" other trades to understand gas regs. I suggest you speak to your colleagues, those who assess gas trainees, and ask them how they feel about your "training".

All you need to explain to your window and floor fitter is to observe the existing situation, and ask themselves if they are likely to change anything. If so, get proffesional advice

 

[mattysupra]

yes you are correct. Its me who is the idiot for trying to simply get some info of what we should point out to installers.

I have no intenstion of teaching gas regs etc but to simply point out to people that they shouldnt go over that vent because its there for the gas appliance etc etc.


Anyway, we will just carry on as we where and not bother pointing out the dangers as its clearly not my job to do so.

 

[expertgasman]

yes you are correct. Its me who is the idiot for trying to simply get some info of what we should point out to installers.

I have no intenstion of teaching gas regs etc but to simply point out to people that they shouldnt go over that vent because its there for the gas appliance etc etc.

Anyway, we will just carry on as we where and not bother pointing out the dangers as its clearly not my job to do so.

Ok Matt, you mist be teaching morons if they don't get that anyway. But, seriously, that is all you need to do, as I said on an earlier post:

"All you need to explain to your window and floor fitter is to observe the existing situation, and ask themselves if they are likely to change anything. If so, get proffesional advice"

 

[mattysupra]

Yes must be teaching Morons!

The people i teach are people new to the trade or someone wanting to improve there standards/ new products etc or people who have failed there NVQ (normaly people who have been in the trade many years)

O and just so you know, all i teach in personally is wall + flooring trades. There are other people who deal with the other trades.

Anyway just to give you a idea of why i originally wanted some info of you lot to make sure i understand things correctly and can help educate / point out dangers to the flooring trade. Well i posted a poll on a flooring forum so you can see how much of a lack of understanding of the plumbing trade there is amongst others.

The polls i put up have run for 1 hour only!

You need to remember that unlike you plumbers there has been no college trainning or exams that floorlayers have had to do before, they walk into a job and get trainned by someone else who is not qualified hence my whole point to this thread in trying to find out what issues we need to address in the future of training!

See what you think to there answers!

 

[mattysupra]

so can you all see how much lack of knowledge there now is?


At least i can now turn around and ask people i see the question - are you allowed to remove a gas cooker?

And then tell them they are not allowed when they belive they are allowed? Or do you all think i should keep my mouth shut and let them carry on putting people in danger because they have not been educated properly?

Or are you all classing this as regs that i cant refer to as i have not been trained as a plumber hence i just let them carry on doing what ever they think is correct?