Genocide supporters will not like this.

[fillyboy]

Go back a bit in history and it was Israeli/Zionist terrorists who took on the Palestinians and drove hundreds of thousands out of their land...

No, After Israel accepted the UN resolution for an independent state, 24 hours after Israel declared statehood they were invaded by Syria, Egypt, Jordan and Iraq. Some Palestinians were no doubt forcibly removed but many left willingly simply because they engulfed in a war zone, a war that lasted 9 months.

And the British suffered from their terrorism too...

They did.

Do you wish to challenge the British declaration of the Stern gang/Irgun Zvai Leumi/Lohamey Heruth Israel as being terrorists?

No.

You seem ok with Hamas/Palestinians/Muslims being designated as terrorists, but how come you can only see one side of the problem?

Hamas are terrorists.

And how do you feel about the freedom of speech to utter such things being allowed?

I'm not a fan of Zionism and I certainly disagree with the West Bank settlements, they should be removed. I also believe Israel has a right to defend itself.

They evacuated and destroyed all Israeli settlements and the military from Gaza in 2005 leaving them to self govern, what happened there?

 

[ellal]

Some Palestinians were no doubt forcibly removed but many left willingly simply because they engulfed in a war zone, a war that lasted 9 months.

Some?

Over 700,000!

And most had to leave due to the threat of death, and for the women sexual assaults - a 'weapon of war'!

At least you accept that the people who founded the state of Israel were designated terrorists...

Hamas are also designated terrorists, but they are fighting for a Palestinian state...

What is the difference apart from 70+ years?

I'm not a fan of Zionism and I certainly disagree with the West Bank settlements, they should be removed. I also believe Israel has a right to defend itself.

They evacuated and destroyed all Israeli settlements and the military from Gaza in 2005 leaving them to self govern, what happened there?

Again, we agree on the west bank settlements...

And the right for Israel to defend itself...

But as Israel continues to steal Palestinian land and has turned Gaza into a de facto open prison...

They were never left to 'free govern' as Israel controls the resources...

So if you were a Palestinian what would you do?

Fight for your freedom or just accept another 70+ years of the same misery again?

 

[ajohn]

Hamas are terrorists.

An old saying. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. A factor worth considering. eg are the Taliban freedom fighters? There aims are rather different.

They evacuated and destroyed all Israeli settlements and the military from Gaza in 2005 leaving them to self govern, what happened there?

Correct bt where is the mention of elections. Fatah in power who are effectively the group that "rule" the west bank. The USA appear to want to go back to this set up.
Next event
In 2007, after Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip, Israel imposed an indefinite blockade of Gaza that is ongoing to present day, on the grounds that Fatah and Palestinian Authority forces had fled the Strip and were no longer able to provide security on the Palestinian side.

Next event
The Central Elections Commission released the final results on Sunday, 29 January 2006, and announced that Change and Reform (Hamas) had won 74 of the 132 seats, while Fatah trailed with 45.

West Bank elections. There hasn't been one. You can read about agruements between the PA and HAMAS concerning Jerusalem which in anycase should be under international control. That was seen as the only feasible solution however Israel has also settled east Jerusalem. Some Israeli see the West Bank as their ancestral home. Religous sites are around for both sides or so it seems. The PA form joint military control with Israel in some areas. What would happen if an election was held?

A comment about the embargo now
On 9 October 2023, Israel intensified the blockade of the Gaza Strip in response to the beginning of the Israel–Hamas war and attacks in Israel by Hamas militants. Israel announced a "total blockade", blocking the entry of food, water, medicine, fuel and electricity.
HAMAS again who are not the only militant group in the Gaza Strip. Israel doesn't want FATAH either read the PA.

I certainly disagree with the West Bank settlements,

Why didn't the UN do it's thing when this was invaded and annexed?

Palestinians with work permits. Israel is recruiting from India. They will earn more than they do in India.

Some "good" news but needs more coverage. HAMAS have responded to what I will call the Blinken plan so he will be trotting over to Israel to discuss it with them after discussing it with several Arab states. More toing and going expected. No info on what HAMAS have said. I just happened to turn on AlJ news yesterday evening before watching a film - wife not ready for that.

One of the concerns about a true Palestinian state is making it viable and self supporting. This is where UNRWA comes in - education. Tough task. The current situation must make this even harder. Fertile land is rather popular.

 

[Odds]

An old saying. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. A factor worth considering. eg are the Taliban freedom fighters?

The Taliban are now the government of Afghanistan, just as the Zionist are the head of Israel's parliament.

West Bank elections.

When Israel finally gets round to accepting a two-state solution then the PA can become the new government and are no longer a terrorist organisation.

 

[ajohn]

When Israel finally gets round to accepting a two-state solution then the PA can become the new government and are no longer a terrorist organisation.

Via elections? Maybe the current terror levels might cause a majority to vote PA but I don't think it would be wise to assume that and the USA appears just wants it set up like that - end of.

 

[ajohn]

A bit more info on deals. HAMAS suggesting a 3 stage idea over a total of 120+ months. The + due to my memory. AlJ has a copy. There has been mutters that something came back from HAMAS with added notes.

AlJ listening post. Where did the info on the 12 UNRWA workers come from.. Interrogation of a prisoner. 1 in 10 being associated with HAMAS. A USA lady with close ties to the IDF. It also pointed out how the USA administration had fed the media on several factors which took the Hague Court ruling out of the news. It seems but pass that some USA media are questioning their own past news releases. A subject of some argument amongst their reporters.

Fact - most media in a number of countries went in the same direction.

 

[fillyboy]

When Israel finally gets round to accepting a two-state solution then the PA can become the new government and are no longer a terrorist organisation.

They accepted a two state solution in 1948 didn't they? and several times since then.

 

[ajohn]

They accepted a two state solution in 1948 didn't they? and several times since then.

Why isn't there one then?

After a quarter of a century of the Mandate, Great Britain submitted what had become “the Palestine problem” to the United Nations on the ground that the Mandatory Power was faced with conflicting obligations that had proved irreconcilable. At this point, when the United Nations itself was hardly two years old, violence ravaged Palestine. After investigating various alternatives the United Nations proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized. The partition plan did not bring peace to Palestine, and the prevailing violence spread into a Middle East war halted only by United Nations action. One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan proclaimed its independence as Israel and, in a series of successive wars, its territorial control expanded to occupy all of Palestine. The Palestinian Arab State envisaged in the partition plan never appeared on the world’s map and, over the following 30 years, the Palestinian people have struggled for their lost rights.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/#Origins_and_Evolution_of_the_Palestine_Problem_1917-1947_Part_I

The said Palestinian state was much larger than anything that has been mentioned since. Annexing the West Bank and also carving it up just made things worse.

Both of these factors just like others are instances of Israel just doing what it wants and f anything else.

 

[SirGalahad]

They accepted a two state solution in 1948 didn't they? and several times since then.

Nigella making things up again.

Filly is Boris squared when it comes to lying.

The two-state solution proposed by the Oslo Accords was born out of a series of historical events. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Jews and Arabs both claimed the right to self-determination in historical Palestine. A first attempt at partitioning the land in 1948 resulted in an Israeli state but no Palestinian state, and the West Bank and Gaza Strip fell under Jordanian and Egyptian rule,

 

[fillyboy]

After a quarter of a century of the Mandate, Great Britain submitted what had become “the Palestine problem” to the United Nations on the ground that the Mandatory Power was faced with conflicting obligations that had proved irreconcilable. At this point, when the United Nations itself was hardly two years old, violence ravaged Palestine. After investigating various alternatives the United Nations proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized. The partition plan did not bring peace to Palestine, and the prevailing violence spread into a Middle East war halted only by United Nations action. One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan proclaimed its independence as Israel and, in a series of successive wars, its territorial control expanded to occupy all of Palestine. The Palestinian Arab State envisaged in the partition plan never appeared on the world’s map and, over the following 30 years, the Palestinian people have struggled for their lost rights.

A lot of missing info there, the Palestinians were offered the same deal, sticking point for them has always been recognising Israel as a a state.

A first attempt at partitioning the land in 1948 resulted in an Israeli state but no Palestinian state, and the West Bank and Gaza Strip fell under Jordanian and Egyptian rule,

Because the Palestinians declined the offer of their own state choosing instead to go to war. The Palestinians could have accepted the same offer the Israelis were given, they chose not to. 24 hours after Israel declared Statehood, they were invaded by Jordan, Syria, Egypt and Iraq, despite having no organised army of airforce, after 9 months they defeated the arabs, quite an achievement.

 

[adlplumbing]

UK considering recognising Palestine state, Lord Cameron says

Britain could recognise Palestine state as part of peace negotiations, foreign secretary suggests.

www.bbc.co.uk

Actually mate, if you looked into the history the conflict from the beginning that was always the plan, except Palestine turned it down, with a one state solution, and no Jews.

 

[fillyboy]

One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan proclaimed its independence as Israel

And as I've said before, and will no doubt say again. Only one of the two states chose to accept the deal proposed by those nice people at the UN, the other 'state' chose instead to go for broke and fight, they lost.

 

[ajohn]

And as I've said before,

One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan

Is that word big enough for you to notice now?

 

[fillyboy]

One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan

Is that word big enough for you to notice now?

Yes I understand but why didn't it happen?, Israel didn't prevent it happening.

Your links tend to conveniently omit why the Palestinians didn't accept the opportunity to establish a state. Furthermore your links go on to state numerous wars hampered efforts but neglect to point out that it was the arabs who started the wars, and lost, again.

John, Egypt signed a peace deal with Israel 40 years ago, Jordan did the same 30 years ago, both peace deals hold strong. Do you have any thoughts on why the Palestinians can't do the same.
It's also worth considering why neither Egypt or Jordan will consider any further Palestinian refugees, they're both fully aware they will have terror camps in their territory.

 

[fillyboy]

One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan

Is that word big enough for you to notice now?

One of the preconditions was that both nations had to recognise the right of the other to exist, the jews agreed to this, the arabs couldn't agree to it, it's in their DNA John.