always will
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Vic I give up trying to educate you
Tell you what quote me a bit of 7671 that supports your argument that it superceeds MI's
I bet It will take you longer than your 6 week college course that made you an expert to find one
G
gaswizzard
Yep , that's me , got it in one.
V
vicvapour
Vic you are an a******e.
Guys on here would leave you standing with regard to system controls.
This is merely a prediction you have made that is based on fresh air.
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G
gaswizzard
Vic , I KNOW in all my heart of hearts I would leave you standing regards system controls.
V
vicvapour
Vic , I KNOW with all my heart of hearts I would leave you standing regards system controls.
Im made up for you.
Blimey.... still going I see. And descended even further into personal insults. Now who's trolling?
Couldn't u answer some of my very simple questions asking your opinion on a few relevant topics without sneary silly & somewhat belittling non constructive answers?
As the forum we are on is an open one perhaps you are a plasterer? I only suggest this as you won't (or cant) answer any simple questions.
IIRC my obligation is to ensure the RCD trips below 30mA at x1 current (amongst others) . So as all testers do that why would I be in the slightest bit interested if it tripped at 27 as opposed to 29? I am after all a stupid illegal RGI but when I auto test an RCD it tells me that without needing to do a further individual ramp test? For whos benifit would I do it? not for NIC thats for sure.
This ego that sparkies have about being 'the clever bods' is a mystery to me.
As a domestic sparky u deal with such few variables. Let’s think – u only have 230 volts and a bit of impedance. Everything you do is color coded (like Lego) and all the answers are in one thin green book there is so little to know,.
Because u can’t be trusted to actually work anything out on your own you are also given a picture book (The ‘dim’ sparkies on site guide) to further reduce the knowledge a sparky needs to be full scope these days and to cater for those that can’t add up..
6 of you together couldn’t wire a complex heating installation properly & prove this to us ‘stupid’ plumbers every day. As to fault finding electrics on a heating system - – well a girl guide would be more helpful.
A large installation to you is just a small one that’s bigger. Just a bit more 2.5 cable and an extra MCB.
A stupid plumber however has infinite variables. Not one ‘voltage/flow/pressure’ but different voltages/flow/pressures’ for different circuit’s dependent on the velocity of the water required to heat the space that its supplying , having first worked out the losses to calculate the required load. Add to this it may have under floor circuits requiring again not only different velocity but different temperature from the same boiler needing individual pumps to drive it. Also circuits (fan heaters) that require constant temps to run correctly & radiators that require constantly varying temperatures to perform correctly (when controlled by outside weather compensation) this all makes your color coded 8 way consumer unit look foolish. Working out pipe friction is far more complex than working out a volts drop on cable!
Electric doesn’t flood. Hot electric doesn’t rise it still follows the cables, It doesn’t suffer from corrosion, contamination or frost, I doesn’t stain your carpet or burst through your ceiling you don’t have hard & soft electric areas, you lot neither have hi pressure & low pressure volts there all nice & perfect everywhere u turn up for you pussies. You don’t have anything that looks like the inside of a BMW engine bay like when u lift the bonnet on a modern modulating boiler. You don’t deal with ebus or open therm technology, in fact u just get the answers from the dummies guide & join wires to terminal blocks.
We have no dummies onsite guide. A ‘stupid’ plumber has to work this entire math’s out correctly otherwise the system won’t work. Next he has to sus out the DHW (that’s the hot tap to you) requirement for the number of outlets then calculate the correct Kw required after diversity to select the correct boiler for the whole installation. It may well all be stored in a unvented cylinder. Your stupid plumber needs to understand the safety issues with high pressure hot water as well as the twin coil in the tank after he has plumbed in a solar panel or two on the roof. Lets not forget scaling problems & the need to reduce the electrolysis that causes long term sludging. The building work that goes alongside a big domestic installation is massively more for a plumber. A Consumer unit fits in your pocket & cost £50 plumbers deal daily with items such as hot water cylinders 7 feet tall and boilers delivered on pallets. Lets also not forget that having done our ’stupid’ plumbing we then wire it all up to work seamlessly as most of us have given up employing sparkies that can’t even quote ohms law let alone explain pinched neutrals . For every 10 week plumber there is a two week full scope sparky with Ellecsa.
Lets throw a bit of gas into this. Now the stupid plumber has to know a second complete new trade being able to work out ventilation requirements siting requirements gas tightness & pipe sizing combustion analysis & the prevention of CO so that no one is killed. This needs thorough understanding of flues & chimneys and a whole lot more. The test equipment (FGA) we use is every bit as comprehensive & expensive as your ELI testers, and FGA results have to be used to apply correct combustion ratio’s to the boiler.
If you cock something up the RCD pops, if we cock it up people get scalded, blown up, or die of Fumes.
So to sumarise you arrogant s***s you need to know F all about anything to bluff your case with electrics. Let’s face it Dad does most of it at the weekend. The ‘setting’ up on a Consumer unit is nothing. The setting up and commissioning on a complex modern heating installation needs lots of skill & knowhow to set the parameters property. There is no comparison to this as a Sparky.
There was a time when sparkies were revered amongst the other trades. However the new wave sparkie and his 2 week part P have lost you that reputation for ever. Like u said – a sparkie is a painter & decorator with his brain removed.
Lastly you pay your governing body £450 PA for an annual check and a badge, we pay £150 for the same – who’s stupid now?
As to the original subject – yes there is a regulation for distance between cables (240v) and copper ( in one of the 70 odd BS we have to put up with (& that’s just gas). Doesn’t include the water regs propane or butane. . However I think it easier for you to drill a teeney weeny hole for your rolls of flexible cabled than the plumber to move rigid inch diameter pipe?
As a footnote, I have a degree in electrical engineering & 35 years on the tools. I moved over to ‘the wet side’ a few years ago with that smug opinion you all appear to have. I need a forum to get help with all the ins n outs of this very technical trade as I still struggle to get it right every time. You have the right to be loud mouthed and self-opinionated but NEVER underestimate a Plumber – for he is a man my son!
Just a little ditty I read in another forum!
As the forum we are on is an open one perhaps you are a plasterer? I only suggest this as you won't (or cant) answer any simple questions.
IIRC my obligation is to ensure the RCD trips below 30mA at x1 current (amongst others) . So as all testers do that why would I be in the slightest bit interested if it tripped at 27 as opposed to 29? I am after all a stupid illegal RGI but when I auto test an RCD it tells me that without needing to do a further individual ramp test? For whos benifit would I do it? not for NIC thats for sure.
This ego that sparkies have about being 'the clever bods' is a mystery to me.
As a domestic sparky u deal with such few variables. Let’s think – u only have 230 volts and a bit of impedance. Everything you do is color coded (like Lego) and all the answers are in one thin green book there is so little to know,.
Because u can’t be trusted to actually work anything out on your own you are also given a picture book (The ‘dim’ sparkies on site guide) to further reduce the knowledge a sparky needs to be full scope these days and to cater for those that can’t add up..
6 of you together couldn’t wire a complex heating installation properly & prove this to us ‘stupid’ plumbers every day. As to fault finding electrics on a heating system - – well a girl guide would be more helpful.
A large installation to you is just a small one that’s bigger. Just a bit more 2.5 cable and an extra MCB.
A stupid plumber however has infinite variables. Not one ‘voltage/flow/pressure’ but different voltages/flow/pressures’ for different circuit’s dependent on the velocity of the water required to heat the space that its supplying , having first worked out the losses to calculate the required load. Add to this it may have under floor circuits requiring again not only different velocity but different temperature from the same boiler needing individual pumps to drive it. Also circuits (fan heaters) that require constant temps to run correctly & radiators that require constantly varying temperatures to perform correctly (when controlled by outside weather compensation) this all makes your color coded 8 way consumer unit look foolish. Working out pipe friction is far more complex than working out a volts drop on cable!
Electric doesn’t flood. Hot electric doesn’t rise it still follows the cables, It doesn’t suffer from corrosion, contamination or frost, I doesn’t stain your carpet or burst through your ceiling you don’t have hard & soft electric areas, you lot neither have hi pressure & low pressure volts there all nice & perfect everywhere u turn up for you pussies. You don’t have anything that looks like the inside of a BMW engine bay like when u lift the bonnet on a modern modulating boiler. You don’t deal with ebus or open therm technology, in fact u just get the answers from the dummies guide & join wires to terminal blocks.
We have no dummies onsite guide. A ‘stupid’ plumber has to work this entire math’s out correctly otherwise the system won’t work. Next he has to sus out the DHW (that’s the hot tap to you) requirement for the number of outlets then calculate the correct Kw required after diversity to select the correct boiler for the whole installation. It may well all be stored in a unvented cylinder. Your stupid plumber needs to understand the safety issues with high pressure hot water as well as the twin coil in the tank after he has plumbed in a solar panel or two on the roof. Lets not forget scaling problems & the need to reduce the electrolysis that causes long term sludging. The building work that goes alongside a big domestic installation is massively more for a plumber. A Consumer unit fits in your pocket & cost £50 plumbers deal daily with items such as hot water cylinders 7 feet tall and boilers delivered on pallets. Lets also not forget that having done our ’stupid’ plumbing we then wire it all up to work seamlessly as most of us have given up employing sparkies that can’t even quote ohms law let alone explain pinched neutrals . For every 10 week plumber there is a two week full scope sparky with Ellecsa.
Lets throw a bit of gas into this. Now the stupid plumber has to know a second complete new trade being able to work out ventilation requirements siting requirements gas tightness & pipe sizing combustion analysis & the prevention of CO so that no one is killed. This needs thorough understanding of flues & chimneys and a whole lot more. The test equipment (FGA) we use is every bit as comprehensive & expensive as your ELI testers, and FGA results have to be used to apply correct combustion ratio’s to the boiler.
If you cock something up the RCD pops, if we cock it up people get scalded, blown up, or die of Fumes.
So to sumarise you arrogant s***s you need to know F all about anything to bluff your case with electrics. Let’s face it Dad does most of it at the weekend. The ‘setting’ up on a Consumer unit is nothing. The setting up and commissioning on a complex modern heating installation needs lots of skill & knowhow to set the parameters property. There is no comparison to this as a Sparky.
There was a time when sparkies were revered amongst the other trades. However the new wave sparkie and his 2 week part P have lost you that reputation for ever. Like u said – a sparkie is a painter & decorator with his brain removed.
Lastly you pay your governing body £450 PA for an annual check and a badge, we pay £150 for the same – who’s stupid now?
As to the original subject – yes there is a regulation for distance between cables (240v) and copper ( in one of the 70 odd BS we have to put up with (& that’s just gas). Doesn’t include the water regs propane or butane. . However I think it easier for you to drill a teeney weeny hole for your rolls of flexible cabled than the plumber to move rigid inch diameter pipe?
As a footnote, I have a degree in electrical engineering & 35 years on the tools. I moved over to ‘the wet side’ a few years ago with that smug opinion you all appear to have. I need a forum to get help with all the ins n outs of this very technical trade as I still struggle to get it right every time. You have the right to be loud mouthed and self-opinionated but NEVER underestimate a Plumber – for he is a man my son!
Just a little ditty I read in another forum!
V
vicvapour
The answer to that question is NOT the person who is trying to close the thread DAN!
V
vicvapour
Elecsa has one L in it mr clever clogs (not)
great reply vic, sums up your whole contribution tonight, nothing but hot air
V
vicvapour
Yep hot air which comes from a hot air curtain which IS fixed which also must be connected to a FCU.
On that note I bid you goodnight x
qualified approved/technician electrician since 1984 mate
not technically employed as one now though as generally work in another field
but still up to date 2382 and 2691 quals (because the company paid and you never know whats around the corner)
ps I work in industry/commercial, not houses so no, not worried one iota
Matt
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