Not really that rare, have rewired quite a few lamp fittings owing to the wiring becoming degraded by heat from the lamps.
Have even had faulty fittings straight out of the box before.
How much of a risk is it not earthing a ceiling light?
- Thread starter cxgcxg
- Start date
Have even had faulty fittings straight out of the box before.
I have also had a faulty fitting straight out of the box - three headed chandelier type thing with line crimp floating around inside fitting.
Luckily installed with CPC & RCD.
Take it down or put it right, do yourself & others a favour.
"A fool & his life are easily parted"
(ROSPA poster)
Luckily installed with CPC & RCD.
Take it down or put it right, do yourself & others a favour.
"A fool & his life are easily parted"
(ROSPA poster)
My god I hope you don't have a family and that it's only your own life you're risking with your criminally stupid attitude 
.
Basically, the reality is this: At any point in the future your metal light fittings or switches could become live and kill whomever next touches them. You will have no reason, no clues, to suspect such a fault has occurred - the first you will know is when somebody gets a potentially fatal shock.
You seem to be conducting some sort of risk assessment, hoping you can justify to yourself doing f.a. about this situation. If you know much about risk assessment, you should know the fairly low likelihood of this fault occurring is made pretty irrelavent by the potential severity of injury it could cause. There can be no other conclusion than the situation must be rectified immediately.
Answer this - do you think the current rules regarding metal light switches/fittings and earthing were introduced a) for a laugh, or b) because loads of people have been killed as a result of the situation you seem intent on putting yourself/your family/your guests in?
Grow up and sort the situation out.
.Basically, the reality is this: At any point in the future your metal light fittings or switches could become live and kill whomever next touches them. You will have no reason, no clues, to suspect such a fault has occurred - the first you will know is when somebody gets a potentially fatal shock.
You seem to be conducting some sort of risk assessment, hoping you can justify to yourself doing f.a. about this situation. If you know much about risk assessment, you should know the fairly low likelihood of this fault occurring is made pretty irrelavent by the potential severity of injury it could cause. There can be no other conclusion than the situation must be rectified immediately.
Answer this - do you think the current rules regarding metal light switches/fittings and earthing were introduced a) for a laugh, or b) because loads of people have been killed as a result of the situation you seem intent on putting yourself/your family/your guests in?
Grow up and sort the situation out.
H
holmslaw
..
The manufacturer has already done that for you. He has fitted an earth terminal because that is required. If it were not required he would have saved the ha'penny it costs.
If this is a metal conduit installation it is possible that a faulty light could cause conduit to become live, and if it isn't earthed, or is broken, some exposed metal somewhere else could be live and waiting to bite you.
And if the electric shock doesn't kill, falling off a stepladder might.
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I can see how people could consider fitting a unit requiring an earth when they don't have one. I found one of the buildings I was looking after had no earths to lights, and with concrete ceiling ceiling not easy to correct. I tried to find a fluorescent fitting that did not require an earth, but even with the plastic fittings, where only the inside had any metal, were not classed as class II. I think there is a secondary reason for the earth with fluorescent fittings, and that involves getting the unit to strike. Old tubes had a metallised strip down the glass, earthed at the end to help them strike.
So I considered the risk, and felt even if I fitted a plastic unit, should anything go wrong, I would either be in hospital, or facing a manslaughter charge, either way the risk was too high.
We all consider at some time we will do "this" for now and as soon as "X" happens we will correct it. However so may times something has happens between "this" and "X" so one is no longer in a position to correct it. Moved house, changed job, for what ever reason one can't correct what one has done.
However the law will still hold one responsible for your actions.
I have only ever fitted two types of fluorescent lamp that did not require an earth. These first were from a bus and 24vdc the other is the compact fluorescent that does not seem to have an earthing requirement.
So I considered the risk, and felt even if I fitted a plastic unit, should anything go wrong, I would either be in hospital, or facing a manslaughter charge, either way the risk was too high.
We all consider at some time we will do "this" for now and as soon as "X" happens we will correct it. However so may times something has happens between "this" and "X" so one is no longer in a position to correct it. Moved house, changed job, for what ever reason one can't correct what one has done.
However the law will still hold one responsible for your actions.
I have only ever fitted two types of fluorescent lamp that did not require an earth. These first were from a bus and 24vdc the other is the compact fluorescent that does not seem to have an earthing requirement.
He has gone quiet now.
Either going off to another forum to attempt to settle his conscience there, or just going to ignore us and keep quiet to his wife as he does not want to upset her by taking the light down.....
Either going off to another forum to attempt to settle his conscience there, or just going to ignore us and keep quiet to his wife as he does not want to upset her by taking the light down.....
Once again it's 'safety fourth'.
I used to think that competent non-electricians should be allowed to carry out basic domestic electrical, but posts like this - and years of experience with customers who'd 'had a go' - incline me to the view that virtually no householders should ever be considered to be competent.
One of the biggest problems with competence is knowing when you're not. For guys like this the only factors are whether it appears to work and whether it looks nice.
Electrical understanding within the industry is also lamentably low, but at least electricians tend to follow a monkey-see-monkey-do approach which has stood them in good stead since training. It doesn't excuse the ignorance, but their prescriptive approach does tend to stop them doing the inexcusable, even if they don't know why it's wrong.
By the way, cxgcxg, you almost certainly need a rewire. You could have put the cost of your pretty luminaire into the kitty instead of wasting your time on money on making your installation more dangerous.
I used to think that competent non-electricians should be allowed to carry out basic domestic electrical, but posts like this - and years of experience with customers who'd 'had a go' - incline me to the view that virtually no householders should ever be considered to be competent.
One of the biggest problems with competence is knowing when you're not. For guys like this the only factors are whether it appears to work and whether it looks nice.
Electrical understanding within the industry is also lamentably low, but at least electricians tend to follow a monkey-see-monkey-do approach which has stood them in good stead since training. It doesn't excuse the ignorance, but their prescriptive approach does tend to stop them doing the inexcusable, even if they don't know why it's wrong.
By the way, cxgcxg, you almost certainly need a rewire. You could have put the cost of your pretty luminaire into the kitty instead of wasting your time on money on making your installation more dangerous.
That's down to poor general levels of technical/scientific/sensible education and the "get a man in" attitude.
We should assume that everyone is going to cook a meal, wire a socket, etc, and educate accordingly.
Ultimately, we are in a situation where a mistake has been made because of little knowledge of the work carried out.
We all make mistakes, and we all learn by them, maybe he has done just that! When you're in the industry, you live and breathe H&S and make sure that no one is put at risk.
My advice to the OP, ok you made a mistake, we all do, its disappointing though that you tried to justify it rather than just say, "Oh Sh*t, I'll get it taken out!". after all, coming on this forum is usually to get advice from people who know and heed that advice. Not take it under advisement! Get someone in to remove the fittings and earth your house appropriately. If you want to do your own electrics, and replacing lights and switches is allowed to be done by unqualifieds, make sure you stick to plastic fittings and if there is an earth wire, make sure you connect it!
We all make mistakes, and we all learn by them, maybe he has done just that! When you're in the industry, you live and breathe H&S and make sure that no one is put at risk.
My advice to the OP, ok you made a mistake, we all do, its disappointing though that you tried to justify it rather than just say, "Oh Sh*t, I'll get it taken out!". after all, coming on this forum is usually to get advice from people who know and heed that advice. Not take it under advisement! Get someone in to remove the fittings and earth your house appropriately. If you want to do your own electrics, and replacing lights and switches is allowed to be done by unqualifieds, make sure you stick to plastic fittings and if there is an earth wire, make sure you connect it!
The safest, in fact only safe way to deal with it is to replace it RIGHT NOW with a light which does not need an earth.
And as it's been a l o o o n n n g g g time since lighting circuits were allowed to not have an earth you should get your installation inspected.
Does the cable have solid cores, or stranded? PVC insulation or rubber?
most likely, gone to another forum for a spot more trolling.
I'm not going to disagree with you professional guys about the importance of competence in electrical work, but here's a true story to show that employing a professional is not necessarily a guarantee of safety either.
I've done a lot of rewiring on my own house, including when I built an extension a few years ago. I have to confess I'm not qualified, so some of you might think I'm certified.
About five years ago it became clear that the 60 year old wiring in my elderly mother's house was in a poor state, rubber insulation coming off wires like powder, etc. I'm sure you know it well. We had the whole house rewired, RCDs etc. by a local firm of qualified electricians. No doubt they worked to approved standards, though we ended up with the usual unsightly surface trunking everywhere. As an amateur I would have chopped channels in the plasterwork and run the wires through concealed trunking, but maybe that would not meet the regulations.
Anyway, all well until two years later when Mum called in an electrician, somebody different, because the lights kept tripping out. He traced it to a faulty light fitting. More important, he pointed out in horror that the new wiring system had never been connected to earth! He did it for her, there and then, at no charge. Yes, I know we could have pursued the original firm, tried to sue, made a complaint to the regulators, but my mother didn't want the upset.
Before you shoot me down in flames, the point of the story is not to have a go at you guys. Just a suggestion that, sometimes, an experienced and consciencious amateur can be as reliable as a sloppy professional.
I've done a lot of rewiring on my own house, including when I built an extension a few years ago. I have to confess I'm not qualified, so some of you might think I'm certified.
About five years ago it became clear that the 60 year old wiring in my elderly mother's house was in a poor state, rubber insulation coming off wires like powder, etc. I'm sure you know it well. We had the whole house rewired, RCDs etc. by a local firm of qualified electricians. No doubt they worked to approved standards, though we ended up with the usual unsightly surface trunking everywhere. As an amateur I would have chopped channels in the plasterwork and run the wires through concealed trunking, but maybe that would not meet the regulations.
Anyway, all well until two years later when Mum called in an electrician, somebody different, because the lights kept tripping out. He traced it to a faulty light fitting. More important, he pointed out in horror that the new wiring system had never been connected to earth! He did it for her, there and then, at no charge. Yes, I know we could have pursued the original firm, tried to sue, made a complaint to the regulators, but my mother didn't want the upset.
Before you shoot me down in flames, the point of the story is not to have a go at you guys. Just a suggestion that, sometimes, an experienced and consciencious amateur can be as reliable as a sloppy professional.
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