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I found out my electrician was not NICEIC registered??

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by ellie647, 31 Aug 2011.

  1. ellie647

    ellie647

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    Hi,

    I am hoping some of you can help. I hired an electrician to carry out work on my property. His website stated he was NICEIC registered but I now know he is not. He is apparently NVQ Level 3??? how competent is this person??

    I was so scared of the work he had done that I arranged a report to be carried out by another registerd NICEIC company. They found 13 faults and I am now taking my electrician to go to Court for loss of money with having to get another compoany to correct the work (a registered company)

    I have put come pics on so you can see what his work was like, what do you think?

    Can someone please explain to me what this report is all about as in the dangers if these faults were not found such as electrick shock, can cause fire, remove plaster if problem in future with electrics???? I would like to have a good idea of what I am saying in court when this report is read out so just want to be a bit educated and a bit knowledgeable as I have been very confued with the whole thing, you know if he was not registerd should he have notified the council of the work he was going to do, he worked in every room in my house, lowered sockets, added sockets in kitchen, added new sockets in living room and dining room. The downstairs in my house is concrete floors and he did not feed new cables throough just joined cable with crimps which was then going to be plastered into the walls.


    Faluts found by the NICEIC company

    1)The "Ring Main" supplying the socket outlets was incorrectly and very dangerouly connected over two fuses (mcb's) one leg on a 30A and second leg on a 40A Mcb

    2) We tested out the ring main - socket circuit and found -
    * No continuity with Neutrals (break somewhere)
    * No continuity with Earths (break somewhere)
    3) We later upon further investigation traced this to nails/screws driven into cables R/Hand lounge fire place & R/Hand D-Room fire place

    4) Some circuits within fuse board were not protected by RCD's

    5) All of the socket outlets down stairs had been lowered from a height 0f 450mm to 200mm - the cables were dropping from above someone instead of rewiring the short cables had extended every one with "crimps" and covered these with capping.... On closer examination most of the crimped connections were loose and just pulled apart - potentially a very dangerous situation

    6) thro-out the property "wiring zones" ie permitted area's to coneal cables within walls had been totally ignored - with zig zagging across walls taking the shortest routes

    7) Boiler was incorrectly connected to the off peak supply

    8) The "earth conductor" was undersized for the type of earthing - TNC's

    9) The earthing to pipework had been cut - no bonding to gas and water pipes

    10) There was a "LIVE" cable left floating under floor board in bathroom

    11) Further testing showed not earth continuity on down stairs lighting circuit

    12) In several instances we found switches/sockets hanging off walls - with exposed cable cores

    13) The kitchen area wiring can best be described as "a rats nest"


    How bad is the work my electrician done for me, is it the work of a cowboy?

    Thanks in advance hopefully it's not too long, 7 photo's

     
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  3. flameport

    flameport

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    1 - Dangerous, as the cable could be overloaded and the MCBs would not trip. There would also be confusion about switching off the circuit - it would be live unless both MCBs were off. The circuit should be connected to a single MCB.

    2 - Could lead to overloading/overheating. Faults like that are easily identified with the most basic of tests, which suggests testing was not done originally.

    3 - If the nails/screws were put there by the person installing the cables, then that is careless at best. Dangerous if the circuit was energised, as the screws/nails could be live.

    4 - Probably not dangerous, but almost certainly does not comply with current regulations.

    5 - Crimps are acceptable if used properly, however if they pull apart they are either the wrong crimps or they were not fitted correctly.
    Lowering the socket outlets is unlikely to comply with building regulations.

    6 - Cables where they shouldn't be is likely to result in people drilling/nailing through them in the future, as once the walls are plastered no one will know they are there. Generally, cables should be vertically or horizontally in line with switches/sockets.

    7 - This means the boiler would only work some of the time, probably between midnight and 7am. Not dangerous but certainly inconvenient and useless.

    8 - This all depends on what the actual size was, and how the required size was determined.

    9 - Dangerous and this is a basic requirement before any electrical work is done.

    10 - Dangerous for obvious reasons.

    11 - Dangerous as a fault would result in live metal parts being exposed instead of the MCB tripping.

    12 - Dangerous as live parts exposed

    13 - Untidy presumably.

    Other points - it is not necessary to be NICEIC registered (or belong to one of the other schemes) to do electrical work. However not being registered would require that the work was notified to the local authority before it was started, and as this involves paying a fee it presumably was not done?
    Someone claiming to belong to an organisation when they do not is obviously deception.
    NVQ level 3 doesn't really mean anything - it refers to some qualification which presumably the person has. However there are a lot of NVQs and various levels. Having one or more does not make someone competent. There are also plenty of people who do high quality work and don't have an NVQ at all.
     
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  4. Spark123

    Spark123

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    The report posted by the NICEIC company paints a pretty grim picture as backed up by your photos!
    Not being NICEIC registered (aka domestic installer in your case) and claiming to be is fraud.
    In essence what he has done does not comply with P1 of the building regulations and has left you with a dangerous installation.
    I agree entirely, a "ring main" (correctly called a "ring final circuit") must only be fed from a single MCB or fuse rated at 30A or 32A.
    No continuity leaves only one path through the ring for current to flow and can cause overheating and in worst case scenario, fire. The fact it was also on two MCBs can also cause an issue like this. Wether or not you can blame him for the breaks though is another matter, but was dangerous anyway.
    Did he work on these circuits? Most domestic circuits need to have RCD protection as they have unprotected concealed cables sub 50mm from the surface however this only came in with the 17th edn regs in 2008. Also the 17th edn regs calls for all sockets to be RCD protected (OK, it has some exceptions but these won't really interest you). Before that with the 16th edn regs it was sockets reasonably expected to supply portable equipment outdoors hence a lot of existing installations do not comply fully with this requirement and unless being modified there is no requirement to upgrade. Only the new modifications would also need to be up to the 17th edn regs.

    Loose connections = bad workmanship and also the potential for overheating. They should also have been enclosed.
    The zones are there to ensure you have a clue where the wiring is, ignoring them is either a disregard to the wiring regs or just not having the slightest clue about them.
    Not dangerous however it isn't exactly rocket science that you need a 24hr supply to it!
    TN-CS, the wiring regs usually require a 16mm (and verify with DNO) however as this belongs to the DNO it is not up to the [electrician] to upgrade it.
    Another big deviation from wiring regs.
    Live and unterminated?
    Any metal fittings which have a fault may not be able to pop the MCB and the casings could become live to touch.
    Poor workmanship, you shouldn't be able to touch any bare copper and the inner insulation should only be accessible in the accessory.
    I can see by the photos!!
     
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  5. sparkwright

    sparkwright

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    I'm amazed this 'electrician' is prepared to go to court. He doesn't seem to have got anything right. He is the ultimate cowboy. He shouldn't be paid anything.

    Out of interest, how much was he charging?
     
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  6. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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    I would have a word with the local building control office and show them the photos of the work and ask if they were aware of the work having been done.

    They may well be interested if the "electrician" has been carrying out work in return for payment while not notifying them of the contracts as will trading standards department. On the other hand if he has notified them via his scheme and done such dangerous work then they may want to take the scheme management to task over such dangerous work.

    As you are taking him to court you may need to be a little careful not to predjudise your case by something you put into the public domain which this forum is.
     
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  7. sparkticus

    sparkticus

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    Please also (in addition to other actions) report the person to the NICEIC, contact details below. They have a "wall of shame" on their website and after investigation may place him on it.


    NICEIC Head Office
    Warwick House
    Houghton Hall Park
    Houghton Regis
    Dunstable LU5 5ZX
    Tel: 0870 013 0382
    Fax: 01582 539090
     
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  8. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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    So much for NVQ level 3, C&G.

    The work is appalling :!:
     
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  9. ellie647

    ellie647

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    Thank you very much for replying I really appreciate it as the whole thing is very hard to understand and I am continously hearing different things such as Par P etc etc which still confuses me and it means nothign to me but having yourself and others help me like this is helping me a great deal as I have felt at a complete loss as I have no idea about electrics but am gaining some knowledge with everyone's help - I'm very greatful :D


    I was told by others to ensure he is NICEIC registered so this is where I found my security in taking on a trader and that's what I went with because in my mind I thought because they are registered as NICEIC that they would take care of everythig and I would not need to worry about paperwork etc as that's what they woudl deal with.

    I am now starting to understand that because this person was not registered and if I knew this at the time and he had been honest about not being registered then the work should have been notified to the council?
     
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  11. sparkticus

    sparkticus

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    Did he provide you with an electrical certificate?
     
  12. ellie647

    ellie647

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    Hi - thanks for your response I really really appreciate it!!!!! It's helping me a great deal everyone is.

    You asked if he worked on the curcuits

    All I can say as I don't really understand it properly is that he worked on pretty much every socket, light switch and light and he was working on the fuse board doing something (I dont know what he was doing) but on his 3rd day he then decided to tell me that I needed a new fuse board. I asked him why he didn't tell me this from the beggining and he told me he didn't realise until now (alarm bells were ringing).

    I then asked him what this meant with all the work he had done, I asked if it would all need to be removed and he said it would, so I said "so all the work you have done and the money I have paid for the work you have done is waisted" and he said"YES" I wondered at this stage if this person was all presnt in his mind
     
  13. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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    Does he use the NICEIC logo on his website?
    If so report him to the NICEIC, he should not be displaying it.
    In future when you employ any tradesmen claiming to be a member of any association, ask for their card/registration number and check them out by calling the association they claim to be part of up!
     
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  14. ellie647

    ellie647

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    You asked No: (10) if it was live and unterminated, not sure what the terminated bit means but when the new company put their electrical tester against the wire the light came on, so I assumed it meant you could get electricuted by it???
     
  15. gman76

    gman76

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    That work really is awful - I'm intrigued, in picture 6, why does there appear to be a socket fitted to the back of an external door?!
     
  16. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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    It so the op can feed the extension lead through the letter box to it, for outside power.
     
  17. ellie647

    ellie647

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    That door was due to be blocked and my firdge was going to go there so he put the cables there ready for when I eventually did get the door way blocked up, apparently the door should have been blocked up first.
     
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