Jason's thread

[jasonzyx]

Hello Jason

Can you explain why other EU states pay less per head of this Stealth tax into this club.

I'm not as clued up as most on here on this subject so please excuse the questions

Hello Bodd

'Per head' is not the criteria used for EU calculation of your so called 'stealth tax'.
Here's something to help you getting clued up

The UK has been the third or fourth largest contributing country to the EU budget in recent years, and of the 28 EU members is one of 10 to contribute more than it gets back in receipts.
https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-one-biggest-contributors-eu-budget/​

 

[Bodd]

The UK has been the third or fourth largest contributing country to the EU budget in recent years, and of the 28 EU members is one of 10 to contribute more than it gets back in receipts.

Jason

You must tell John this as I think he is unaware.

But thank you. You are educating me

 

[Notch7]

The poorer EU countries contribute less than they get in receipts.

Those countries, Poland for example has benefited from membership by considerable infrastructure investment (often with German and French companies).....its a double edged sword though as these East European countries have also suffered from significant loss of skilled workers.

Overall though increasing the wealth of neighbouring countries, especially those in the Eastern Europe which were once communist, is a win win for Europe, both for wealth and stability.

The UK being one of the biggest net contributors to the EU will leave it permanently weaker. There arent any countries that can join the EU with similar GDP.

Its a bit of a false argument to say the UK has a free trade deal -yes there are no tarriffs on EU goods, but that is the result of paying a membership fee. Its like saying if I get sky, I dont have to pay to watch the channels. There is no free lunch in this world -however these remainers like to claim otherwise.....

 

[Bodd]

The poorer EU countries contribute less than they get in receipts.

Those countries, Poland for example has benefited from membership by considerable infrastructure investment (often with German and French companies).....its a double edged sword though as these East European countries have also suffered from significant loss of skilled workers.

Overall though increasing the wealth of neighbouring countries, especially those in the Eastern Europe which were once communist, is a win win for Europe, both for wealth and stability.

The UK being one of the biggest net contributors to the EU will leave it permanently weaker. There arent any countries that can join the EU with similar GDP.

Its a bit of a false argument to say the UK has a free trade deal -yes there are no tarriffs on EU goods, but that is the result of paying a membership fee. Its like saying if I get sky, I dont have to pay to watch the channels. There is no free lunch in this world -however these remainers like to claim otherwise.....

You stole my words. I just found it difficult spelling them...

John are you watching?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Have you ever used the term stealth tax????

Well it works a bit like a stealth tax:

EU " you pay us X amount each year and we will give you access to free tariffs.
We call it a membership"

UK " Wow that sounds good. Do all the other EU States pay the same X amount for their membership each year? "

EU "Most of them pay no where near as much as the UK, and what's more they support the EU economy far less by buying far less from the EU"

UK " Wow, can I ask the country what they think"

EU " You either like it or you lump it "

Do you get it ??

So in reply to me pointing out that there are currently no tariffs on UK-EU trade, you post that, which doesn't mention the word "tariff" at all, and ask if I get it?

You're not very good at this, are you.

Let's see if you have managed to get enough of it so far to answer this:

Do we, or do we not, currently have a tariff-free trade deal with the EU?

I'm tempted to say no

Then please produce a list of, or a link to the schedule of, tariffs which apply to each class of import/export between us and the EU.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Its a bit of a false argument to say the UK has a free trade deal -yes there are no tarriffs on EU goods, but that is the result of paying a membership fee. Its like saying if I get sky, I dont have to pay to watch the channels. There is no free lunch in this world -however these remainers like to claim otherwise.....

You don't actually understand the difference between those two uses of "free", do you.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

there are no tarriffs on EU goods

You stole my words.

Strange, in that case, how all your words so far have been to deny that we have tariff-free trade with the EU.

 

[Bodd]

This golf club you go on about does the rich fella with the Bentley pay the same membership as the poor fella with the Duster.???

 

[transam]

So a question to all those who consider themselves not to be hard of thinking:

Do we, or do we not, currently have a tariff-free trade deal with the EU? Yes or no.

yes tariff free

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So can you explain it to Bodd?

So the EU don't want a tarrif free agreement.

 

[transam]

So can you explain it to Bodd?

​

dont get sucked in Bodd he is on a fishing expedition

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Nothing to catch here that isn't already dead.

 

[jasonzyx]

This golf club you go on about does the rich fella with the Bentley pay the same membership as the poor fella with the Duster.???

The golf club isn't a democracy. It doesn't have political ideologies determining its decision. It doesn't have published social ambitions and projects to achieve those ambitions. It doesn't conduct governmental legislation for the benefit of its members.
A golf club does not exist for all within its geographical area, just for the benefit of its few members irrespective of their area of habitation, work, or social connections. It also exists for the benefit of its stake/stockholders. A golf club has to make a RoI (unless it's a municipal course, and even then it must make some RoI). A golf club can accept payments for favourable decisions. A golf club can unilaterally decide to change its business model, form joint enterprises with other businesses, or go into administration.
A golf club is not accountable to an elected body (nor its members). Its legislation is not accountable to a court.

 

[jasonzyx]

Thinking about a golf club going into administration made me think about the EU going into administration, if it were possible. Which then led me onto the multiple expressions of wishes or predictions of the EU disappearing into a black hole (or the many such predictions of the anti-EU brigade).

If some countries did follow the example of UK and declare an exit from EU, those countries would invariably be member states that are beneficiaries of EU funds, i.e. they receive more than they pay.
So the EU would become richer, or they could return more funds to the countries that remain, or they could ask fewer payments of the remaining members. There would also be more contributions of trade tariffs.
Whichever way you look at it, the exit of member states that benefit from being a member, would strengthen the EU, not weaken it.

Of the member states considering an exit from the EU, the UK is the only one currently paying more than they receive. (I think, I'll have to check.)

Edit
Just checked: Denmark and Sweden, nominal net contributors.
France and Italy, major net contributors.
Czech Republic, Ireland, Hungary and Greece major net beneficiaries.

So two countries (France and Italy) would be sorely missed.
Two others would make little difference (Denmark and Sweden).
The four (Czech Republic, Ireland, Hungary and Greece) maybe the EU would happily wave goodbye, even give them a golden handshake?

Maybe the overhaul increase in trade tariffs will be equivalent to their contributions.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...ies-leave-bloc-follow-Britain-odds-favourites

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8036097.stm#start

 

[Notch7]

You don't actually understand the difference between those two uses of "free", do you.

I clearly do understand the difference

You clearly also understand, but are choosing to be obtuse because it spoils your flawed argument.

Perhaps you advise us what you think will happen during the trade talks: to obtain tarriff free with the EU, do you think the UK will have to pay an EU fee -or do you think it will be free. Or perhaps you dont understand the connection in those uses of 'free'