Lets write a reply!

[WhydidIstart]

But back in real-life conditions, I'm pointing out that part P is scaring off skilled & knowledgeable installers, but not bodgit merchants, which is farcical.

Nail hit on head.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Nail hit on head.

No - it's not.

So much so as to qualify as a lie - anybody who claims that he is a skilled and knowledgeable installer but has been scared off/driven out/bankrupted by Part P is lying, either about being skilled and knowledgeable, or about what Part P has done to him.

But he's definitely a liar.

 

[TopTrumper]

But he's definitely a liar.

And you would know this of course with your vast amounts of real world experience.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And you would know this of course with your vast amounts of real world experience.

I'll tell you what I do know.

I know that somebody who does not own proper test equipment is not a skilled and knowledgeable installer - he's a cowboy, and if he claims to be a skilled and knowledgeable installer then he's lying.

I know that somebody who does not test his work is not a skilled and knowledgeable installer - he's a cowboy, and if he claims to be a skilled and knowledgeable installer then he's lying.

I know that somebody who does not certify his work is not a skilled and knowledgeable installer - he's a cowboy, and if he claims to be a skilled and knowledgeable installer then he's lying.

I know that somebody who does not comply with the law in the course of his work is not a skilled and knowledgeable installer - he's a cowboy, and if he claims to be a skilled and knowledgeable installer then he's lying.

I know that somebody who does not have proper insurance is not a skilled and knowledgeable installer - he's a cowboy, and if he claims to be a skilled and knowledgeable installer then he's lying.

I know that somebody who does not keep his knowledge up to date is not a skilled and knowledgeable installer - he's a cowboy, and if he claims to be a skilled and knowledgeable installer then he's lying.


And I know that if he does have, and does do, all of those things then whilst the inspection process for scheme registration may wound his precious pride the extra costs are marginal, and will not drive his business to the wall.

So I repeat - anybody who claims that he is a skilled and knowledgeable installer but has been scared off/driven out/bankrupted by Part P is lying, either about being skilled and knowledgeable, or about what Part P has done to him.

 

[TopTrumper]

You really are a gem, lol...
Tell you what i know,
You would not last 2 minutes as a self employed spark.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I wouldn't last 5 minutes as a doctor either, but I know that Harold Shipman's behaviour fell way short of the level required.

Still - nice to know that you think that not testing, not being able to test, not issuing certificates, not being insured, not complying with the law and not keeping up to date are the hallmarks of a skilled and knowledgeable professional.

 

[jj4091]

Anybody who claims that he is a skilled and knowledgeable installer but has been scared off/driven out/bankrupted by Part P is lying, either about being skilled and knowledgeable, or about what Part P has done to him.

I normally feel that you are knowledgeable & give good advice, but I think you are insulting hundreds if not thousands of sparks throughout the country who are employed by councils & contractors who do not need their own test equipment, nor be registered to sign off their own work & often their employers will not allow them to do their own testing.

I think you you should have qualified your comments & made it more clear who you are refering to.

 

[oharaf]

jj4091, I think what BAS was getting at was the 'Individual' installer who will not do what he is supposed to do.

I don't think BAS was getting at the guys who work for the councils etc who carryout the installation work and then the T&I chap comes along to do the verification and testing.

I would 'assume' that under these processes the 3 signature form is used and the installers sign for their installation work.

I know for a fact the Bradford council have been pushing as many of their blokes through the entire suite of qualifications inorder that they can see jobs through.

BAS was purely pointing out the fellas who will go and do work, turn it on and say "it works it is fine" without actually taking ownership and responsibility for the work - hence COWBOYS!!

I am with him if this is his direction. Not Inspecting, Testing, notifying, being insured, qualified, skilled, knowledgeable is a recipe for bad work, faults, extra cost and ultimately someones life!!!

I could not live with that, nor any of the sparks on here that have joined the schemes, want to be trusted, reliable and earn a living from this specialist career

 

[ban-all-sheds]

oharaf is right - that is what I meant - people who should own the proper equipment and don't, people who should test and don't, people who should certify and don't, people who should notify and don't, people who should be insured and aren't, people who should keep their skills up to date and don't.

People like hairyben's "skilled & knowledgeable installers" who are being "scared off" by Part P.

And if it were genuine, people like the author of the letter to PE.

 

[TopTrumper]

http://home.btconnect.com/rdi/frazer.jpg

 

[hairyben]

I wouldn't last 5 minutes as a doctor either, but I know that Harold Shipman's behaviour fell way short of the level required.

Harold Shipmans an interesting example.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was he not registered, qualified, insured, etc etc etc?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Harold Shipmans an interesting example.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was he not registered, qualified, insured, etc etc etc?

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

I chose him as a blindingly obvious example of the blindingly obvious fact that you don't necessarily have to be a {something} yourself to be able to tell when someone who is, or claims to be a {something} is falling short of the standards required.

Maybe it wasn't obvious enough for you and Top Trumper though.

Or maybe the pair of you can't explain why it is OK not to test, why it is OK to not even to be able to test, why it is OK not to certify your work, why it is OK not to be insured, why it is OK to break the law and why it is OK not to keep your skills current, and therefore you think you can brush aside my critical observations on the grounds that I'm not a self-employed electrician myself.

Well I have bad news for you - you can't.

 

[RF Lighting]

WHOA. Enough squabbling.

Thankyou.

The purpose of this thread was for us to put our collective minds together, and hopefully write a nice factual well worded letter to send to PE magazine as a reply to the letter in my OP so perhaps we could help some other electricians see why this attitude is not a good attitude to adopt.

I'm not an especially good letter writer, but felt moved to want to reply to this.
All I wanted was a little help with that.
Pretty please?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I advise not giving PE magazine the satisfaction of responding to their lies.

 

[RF Lighting]

I don't think it is lies, and even if it were, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there with a similar mind set.

Maybe just one of them could be nurtured into seeing the error of their ways.....