Lets write a reply!

[TopTrumper]

I advise not giving PE magazine the satisfaction of responding to their lies.

You just ruin every other thread.
To be honest, i dont think many of us care wether its lies or not, we aint gonna lose sleep over it.
We come on these forums for a bit of advice, to give a bit of advice, and sometimes have a bit of banter, but you always have to get your pennys worth in and drag it onto a completely different level.

Why dont you do us all a favour..

 

[hairyben]

Because Harry Shipman is a blindingly obvious example that having all the right paperwork and procedures in place doesn't count for everything.

If you were a self employed electrician in the trade, you might know:

>Certificates may not be worth the paper they're written on. I've seen cert's with lets just say "the most prestigious logos" that barely resemble the installations they relate to.

>There are many people doing really, really bad work, with no attempt to meet the requirements of BS 7671, sometimes "certified" and sometimes not, and they're getting away with it because nobody "up there" cares.

The "system" you're defending isn't working. I'm all for better standards, because I'm the guy who has to "give people bad news" all too often, so don't dare lecture me on what you think is right and wrong, because I'm sick of the reality. Why did I have to disconnect a towell heater with no earth connection, no RCD, practically in a bath, with no isolation (unless you count a timer) or fusing down from the ring? Why did I tell someone a couple of months ago I gotta smash up their beautiful new kitchen with no ring continuity, and 0.1 Meg insulation readings and rewire it?

These jobs were not done by electricians ducking and diving. These are your real bodgers, the people we need rid of, not the blokes who havn't calibrated their loop tester for 13 months or don't have a f**king "written customer compaints procedure"

Part P has failed spectacularly. So perhaps we should go back and start again, and y'know what, there are thousands of old sparks out there who've wired millions of property's before part P, 99.999999% of which are fine.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't think it is lies, and even if it were, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there with a similar mind set.

Maybe just one of them could be nurtured into seeing the error of their ways.....

It's not uncommon for magazines to invent letters in order to kick off a round of real ones.

If it is true then the best way to nurture other readers into seeing the error of their ways would have been for the magazine to pass the guy's details on to the relevant authorities for prosecution and to print an editorial condemning him for his attitude.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

To be honest, i dont think many of us care wether its lies or not,

Well you should, unless you think that telling lies, and being lied to, are OK.

We come on these forums for a bit of advice, to give a bit of advice, and sometimes have a bit of banter, but you always have to get your pennys worth in and drag it onto a completely different level.

Why dont you do us all a favour..

Why don't you do us all a favour and explain why you think that not testing, not being able to test, not issuing certificates, not being insured, not complying with the law and not keeping up to date are what makes a skilled and knowledgeable professional.

 

[TopTrumper]

Why don't you do us all a favour and explain why you think that not testing, not being able to test, not issuing certificates, not being insured, not complying with the law and not keeping up to date are what makes a skilled and knowledgeable professional.

Your completely one dimensional as everybody knows....
were the hell did that come from?
I think hairyben has just answered you anyway.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Because Harry Shipman is a blindingly obvious example that having all the right paperwork and procedures in place doesn't count for everything.

He didn't have the right paperwork and procedures in place though, did he.

If you were a self employed electrician in the trade, you might know:

>Certificates may not be worth the paper they're written on. I've seen cert's with lets just say "the most prestigious logos" that barely resemble the installations they relate to.

I'm sure that is true, but it doesn't mean that not testing, not being able to test, not issuing certificates, not being insured, not complying with the law and not keeping up to date are what makes a skilled and knowledgeable professional.

>There are many people doing really, really bad work, with no attempt to meet the requirements of BS 7671, sometimes "certified" and sometimes not, and they're getting away with it because nobody "up there" cares.

I'm sure that is true, but it doesn't mean that not testing, not being able to test, not issuing certificates, not being insured, not complying with the law and not keeping up to date are what makes a skilled and knowledgeable professional.

The "system" you're defending isn't working.

What system am I defending?

Testing? That's in BS 7671 isn't it? Do you not think people should comply with it?

Having the equipment to enable you to test? That's in BS 7671 isn't it? Do you not think people should comply with it?

Issuing certificates? That's in BS 7671 isn't it? Do you not think people should comply with it?

Being insured? Don't you think that's good practice?

Complying with the law? Don't you think people should?

Keeping skills up to date? Don't you think that's good practice?

I'm all for better standards, because I'm the guy who has to "give people bad news" all too often,

So why do you think that not testing, not being able to test, not issuing certificates, not being insured, not complying with the law and not keeping up to date are what makes a skilled and knowledgeable professional?

so don't dare lecture me on what you think is right and wrong, because I'm sick of the reality.

But not sick of the reality of people claiming to be skilled and knowledgeable despite not complying with the Wiring Regulations, not complying with the law and putting their customers property at risk?

Why did I have to disconnect a towell heater with no earth connection, no RCD, practically in a bath, with no isolation (unless you count a timer) or fusing down from the ring? Why did I tell someone a couple of months ago I gotta smash up their beautiful new kitchen with no ring continuity, and 0.1 Meg insulation readings and rewire it?

Dunno - maybe because those jobs had been done by people who thought it was OK to not test, not be able to test, not issue certificates, not be insured, not comply with the law and not keep up to date?

These jobs were not done by electricians ducking and diving. These are your real bodgers, the people we need rid of, not the blokes who havn't calibrated their loop tester for 13 months or don't have a f**king "written customer compaints procedure"

That doesn't mean that not testing, not being able to test, not issuing certificates, not being insured, not complying with the law and not keeping up to date are what makes a skilled and knowledgeable professional.

Part P has failed spectacularly.

Au contraire - it boosted NICEIC's revenues substantially. Maybe not permanently though.

So perhaps we should go back and start again, and y'know what, there are thousands of old sparks out there who've wired millions of property's before part P, 99.999999% of which are fine.

And were those thousands of sparks failing to comply with BS 7671, breaking laws, and putting their customers at risk by not having adequate insurance?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Your completely one dimensional as everybody knows....
were the hell did that come from?

Where did what come from?

 

[hairyben]

Someone give that record player a tap.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Please stop evading and explain why you think that not testing, not being able to test, not issuing certificates, not being insured, not complying with the law and not keeping up to date are what makes a skilled and knowledgeable professional.

 

[hairyben]

Because
Because
Because

(I really wanna tell you, but I'm stuck in a groove.)

 

[Spark123]

To work in a house on certain items requires notification. I can quite legally create new circuits, install accessories in kitchens or where relevent, in special locations in places which are non domestic (and not assiciated with domestic). I have all the necessary test equipment, qualifications, books, training, PLI etc. I however cannot legally install a socket in my own kitchen without going through the LABC, paying somebody a fee to create a piece of paper and come and look at a job and read my certificate and to say I did it right. For the likes of myself to enrol with Napit (which if I did would be the one I would probably go for), for the amount of relevent domestic work I do is just not cost effective as I work full time in industry. I agree in some respects what part p was about however the whole notifications thing is imo a farce.

 

[sealeon]

part p is complete tosh it means nothing the fact is you can become competent in the governments eyes by completing a 12 week 3 hr a week course with a multiple choice test at the end and get the competent person scheme inspector to have a look at your apprenticed served qualified spark mates work say you did it and bobs your uncle off you go
It is a fact real sparks are giving up the trade because of it and the clowns and cowboys are just finding it a breeze to walk into it.I know a load of time served sparks that are now stacking shelves or doing other work even one of napits own inspectors has told me that its not worth calling a part p registered spark because they are crap due to how easy it is to get the ticket

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Because

Because
Because
Because

(I really wanna tell you, but I'm stuck in a groove.)

That's OK.

I'm sure that everybody recognises that you've realised you can't actually explain why you think that not testing, not being able to test, not issuing certificates, not being insured, not complying with the law and not keeping up to date are what makes a skilled and knowledgeable professional, because you don't think that.

But because you've decided to have a go at me for agreeing with you you're kind of stuck, and hope that by attempting to evade and trivialise this discussion you'll be OK.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

part p is complete tosh it means nothing the fact is you can become competent in the governments eyes by completing a 12 week 3 hr a week course with a multiple choice test at the end

No - it's not "in the Government's eyes", it's in the eyes of NICIEC etc, who used to require registered contractors to have the full-spec C&G set, but who, as soon as they'd managed to get Part P brought into force prostituted themselves by registering people with the EAL DISQ NVQ.

and get the competent person scheme inspector to have a look at your apprenticed served qualified spark mates work say you did it and bobs your uncle off you go

If you have evidence of such fraudulent practices I suggest you pass it on to the body concerned, and to the Dept for Communities & Local Govt.

It is a fact real sparks are giving up the trade because of it and the clowns and cowboys are just finding it a breeze to walk into it.I know a load of time served sparks that are now stacking shelves or doing other work even one of napits own inspectors has told me that its not worth calling a part p registered spark because they are rubbish due to how easy it is to get the ticket

Well perhaps if NAPIT didn't register the rubbish...

 

[hairyben]

Because you've decided to have a go at me for agreeing with you you're kind of stuck, and hope that by attempting to evade and trivialise this discussion you'll be OK.

yes, yes you're right.

Or perhaps I've gone to have a conversation with a speak-your-weight machine, at least it gives a reconsidered opinion with each response.