Osram 44870 downlight replacement

[ericmark]

I would buy one G5.3 bulb and try it, that is the simplest option. With a tungsten bulb, the thicker the filament wire, the longer it will last, so 12 volts lasted longer than 230 volts. But with LED, all the advantage of low voltage is lost, except where forced to fit them in bathrooms.

But no harm should result in fitting a 5 watt bulbs on a 20 watt minium supply other than it not working.

We have 4 devices which can power G5.3 base 12 volt bulbs.

1) Toroidal transformer, this will allow use of LED with no changes.
2) Electronic transformer
A) With no lower limit, in the main same as toroidal transformer but could turn into a transmitter, but unlikely.
B) With lower limit, rearranging so fewer transformers so more load on those left, may be possible to make them work.
3) Driver this is a poor name, as it covers current regulated (AC and DC) and voltage regulated normally DC, but in the main it refers to voltage regulated DC, in real terms there is no difference to 2A other than less likely to turn into a transmitter.

These all cost money, so the other method is moving from extra low voltage (12 volt) to low voltage (230 volt AC) there are adaptors

The first has no junction box, and an EICR would likely list them as a fault, the second with junction box, far better, but both do the same thing. But also the whole unit

can cost less than the adaptor, so it is hard to advise which route to take. The lack of earths can be seen as a problem, as often the 12 volt versions were wired without earth wires, so really new cables should be pulled through, but often they are not.

I am trying to point out that it can be done super cheap, or super safe, and you have to decide what road to take.

 

[flameport]

I need to check their specifcation to ensure compatibility

There will be no compatibility, such things were designed for 50W halogen lamps and nothing else.

For the time being we'll take the easiest option

Easiest but certainly not the cheapest.
Even if used for only 2 or 3 hours a day, each one of those 50W halogen lamps is wasting more than £10 in electricity every year compared to the LED equivalent.

quotations

Plenty of old 'MR16' 12V downlights can be converted to GU10 using this: https://www.toolstation.com/spare-lampholder/p34667 or similar, and a GU10 LED lamp of whatever colour and brightness is desired.
The cost is minimal, the benefits are significant.

 

[FrodoOne]

The LED you suggest is a tad dimmer (500lumen) and a tad whiter (3000K)

Having the Colour Temperature of 3000 K would be a vast improvement on the sickly yellow colour that is 2700 K - in my opinion.
Even better would be to use 4000 K lighting throughout - again, in my opinion.

When you do (eventually) get around to replacing the old Halogen 12 V limited angle "downlights" with 230 V units,
please consider using those "recessed downlights" which require a larger cutout hole (90 mm or larger).

It seems that "Downlight" in the UK largely refers to those with small replaceable Halogen/LED "globes",

However, I did find one site with that which they refer to as Recessed Downlights,
which utilize a larger cutout and the light from which is more "even" across their larger area
and more "spread out".
https://www.lighting-direct.co.uk/ceiling-lights/recessed-downlights.html?lyco_technology=1805

Such larger "downlights" are now virtually the "norm" in this country (Australia)
and our largest "Big Box Store" does not sell the smaller Halogen/LED type anymore - although they still sell the replacement LED "globes".
https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=downlights&sort=BoostOrder.

With most of these lamps, the Colour Temperature" can be adjusted on installation
and
many are also dimmable.

The lighting "spread" of these usually approaches 180 degrees -
not the narrow "spread" of the old "multifaceted reflector" halogen lamps
and
their LED replacements.

See aliso my post (#27) in https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/lighting-a-room-in-the-led-age.646914/page-2

 

[Murdochcat]

My advice would be to replace the downlights , with customer changeable GU10 bulbs. Faffing around with transformers, LV cables and bulbs is so last century

AND do NOT get suckered into fitting sealed downlights either

 

[Murdochcat]

PS - I've got a load of 12v bulbs in my garage if anybody wants to acquire them

 

[Rodders53]

Having the Colour Temperature of 3000 K would be a vast improvement on the sickly yellow colour that is 2700 K - in my opinion.

You'd never see the difference - probably even with two side by side.

TV studio lamps (tungsten halogen) are 3200K at 240V --- cameras are/were lined up as fader 7 = 2700K so that no significant colour change was perceived between around fader 4 and 10 in use.

Now, colour rendering index differences between different LEDs (or fluorescent or discharge lights) would be a different matter.

 

[FrodoOne]

AND do NOT get suckered into fitting sealed downlights either

Using "sealed" "recessed downlights"
(i.e. complete "Units")
is not being "suckered".

These complete "Units" last at least as long as plug-in LED lamps (if not longer)
often cost little more
and
are quite easy to replace - with their spring clips - in the larger ceiling holes which they require,
usually starting at 90 mm.

(Many times on this site there have been questions as to how to remove/replace the old Halogen and substitute LED lamps,
which can be quite a "fiddly" and awkward process !)

The more even light "spread" of these larger "recessed downlight" units is a distinct advantage.
They are often "colour temperature" adjustable - on installation -
and
dimmable.

 

[FrodoOne]

You'd never see the difference - probably even with two side by side.

The difference between 2700 K and 3000 K is more than 11%
and quite easily discernable - at least, for me!

The difference between 3000K and 4000 K is over 30%
and a great improvement.

After candles (1000 K to 2000 K)
and Gaslight (1850 K to 2400 K) - with the higher figure using "Gas Mantles" -
tungsten filament incandescent lamps (2700 K) were an improvement.
Halogen lamps got better, up to 3000 K.

"A 4000K color temperature produces a cool white light, which is often described as a neutral white, offering a balance between warm and cool tones.
It's a popular choice for spaces where a bright, clear, and slightly invigorating light is desired, such as kitchens, bathrooms, offices, and commercial settings. "

(4000 K is rated as being that of a "clear dawn sky".)

 

[morqthana]

Rodders & Eric gave the best advice...

Suck it and see with a few?

I would buy one G5.3 bulb and try it