Part P question

[smokinloads]

Hi All,

Just a quick question regarding Part P.....

As I understand it, notification or certification is required for all electrical work undertaken in a 'special' location.
Where this applies to a bathroom, this means within any of the defined zones....
Under a bath however, where access is restricted by a panel, and the panel requires a tool to remove it, this falls outside the zones.
(this was in the 16th edition of 7671 - can anyone confirm the same for 17th?)

Does this therefore mean that notification or certification is not required for such an installation? (i'm specifically thinking of a whirlpool bath installation)

Thanks
Nick

 

[Veglen]

I like your thinking but unfortunately…

Although behind a bath panel that requires a tool to remove is outside the zones has not changed, you are still working in a special location.

Therefore, LABC will have to be involved or a registered competent person employed.

Edited to add: The Bathroom is the special location not the Zones within the bathroom!

V

 

[smokinloads]

Thanks for the speedy response...

Looks like I need to get in touch with the council then....

Thanks
Nick

 

[oharaf]

Yep need to notfiy I am afraid. What are you doing?

The council will charge the earth to inspect and test!!

Where are you? Perhaps I can be of assistance?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The Bathroom is the special location not the Zones within the bathroom!

“special location” means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath,
a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, sixteenth
edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards
Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating amendments 1 and 2.

 

[Veglen]

Sorry smokinloads I must have it wrong!

What are you saying BAS? If the OP was to carry out work in their bathroom outside zones 1 & 2, over 600mm from the edge of the bath or on the ceiling above the 2.25m limit or indeed under the bath, they are outside all zones and therefore no need to notify?

V

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Depends on the work, but if it wouldn't be notifiable in the living room then it wouldn't be notifiable outside Zones 1, 2 & 3 as defined in BS 7671:2001.

 

[nozspark]

Ooops!!

 

[GaryMo]

Depends on the work, but if it wouldn't be notifiable in the living room then it wouldn't be notifiable outside Zones 1, 2 & 3 as defined in BS 7671:2001.

Approved Document Part P - 2006 Edition describes a special location as a location containing a bathtub or shower basin, swimming or paddling pools or hot air saunas.
No mention of 'within zones'.

 

[smokinloads]

I must admit, I went back ad scrutinised all the docs I could find and the section BAS quotes I could only find reference to in BS 7671: 2000 and 2001

The Approved doc P 2006 does say any room containing a bath and for large bathrooms, this is bounded by the walls of room.
I'm curious if this still stands though, since the changes in the 17th I've heard allow sockets in the bathroom if outside the zones.....

Although it's a pain, I don't mind going down the notification route (never done it before though, so my thoughts might change after doing so).
I'll definitely ask the question if it's notifiable first.

Cheers all
Nick

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Approved Document Part P - 2006 Edition describes a special location as a location containing a bathtub or shower basin, swimming or paddling pools or hot air saunas.
No mention of 'within zones'.

AD P does not define the law.

This is not a question of interpretation of something vaguely worded - read the actual Building Regulations and you will see that the legal definition of "special location" is crystal clear, precise and unambiguous - there is not a shred of doubt that it only encompasses Zones 1, 2, & 3.

Even though the BS 7671:2008 has changed the definitions of Zones, until the law is amended, the meaning of "special location" in the Building Regulations will remain the Zones defined in BS 7671:2001 Amd 1 & 2.

 

[smokinloads]

Thanks BAS - it looks like you are completely correct.
I even found a 'easy to read' document on the planning portal site that specifically says that the Approved documents are a guidence only and not the law....

And the law, as you state, is crystal - outside the defined zones in a bathroom is not notifiable.

(the same 'easy to read' document also specifically mentions replacing current bath with whirlpool baths and spa's as not notifiable under any of the regulations)

Thanks all for your time - it's saved me a bit of money

 

[GaryMo]

Considering that's such a big difference to what is and what isn't notifiable then why is it not carried over to other prints like the Approved Document P and the Electricians Guide To The Building Regulations?

Looking at the EGTTBR it also has a Special Location as a location containing a bath or a shower basin, swimming or paddling pool and hot air saunas.

There must have been plenty of opportunity to put 'if within relevant zones' before final print.

 

[Spark123]

Thanks BAS - it looks like you are completely correct.
I even found a 'easy to read' document on the planning portal site that specifically says that the Approved documents are a guidence only and not the law....

And the law, as you state, is crystal - outside the defined zones in a bathroom is not notifiable.

(the same 'easy to read' document also specifically mentions replacing current bath with whirlpool baths and spa's as not notifiable under any of the regulations)

Thanks all for your time - it's saved me a bit of money

Generally - replacing most items which is a maintenance task (specifically excluding CUs) is non notifiable.
Installation work even if non-notifiable still needs to comply with P1 i.e. it needs to be safe. One method of complying with P1 is to follow a standard i.e. by following BS7671. This requires it to be certified.

 

[smokinloads]

Considering that's such a big difference to what is and what isn't notifiable then why is it not carried over to other prints like the Approved Document P and the Electricians Guide To The Building Regulations?

Who can say....

I can only speculate that the people advising the people writing the approved document and other guidelines perhaps have a vested interest in keeping it vague....

On the whole, and as a rule, I'd always advise using a qualified and experienced person to undertake any electrical work, and I couldn't agree more with Spark123's comments about work needing to be safe.
I just thoroughly disagree with the need to pay local council to have a record of my work (particularly when in my own property)
I have some qualifications (a number of years ago) in this arena and even though I've never worked professionally in the field I am perfectly capable of working to current regulations.

Any opportunity to avoid unnecessary cost in my view should be taken....