Replacement Boiler original thread locked !!

[shaky1105]

Thanks to all the guys that replied to my original post about the replacement boiler I needed fitting. Sorry if I inadvertently started a flaming war.

I'm a Co-Admin of a motorcycle board, so I know how easy it is to have people ruining stuff for others.

Anyway, if I am to take the replies correctly, can I do my own plumbing on the gas side, seeing as I know what to do & correctly ? I don't actually have to have a Corgi guy down to do the work ?

I want to make absolutely certain that I ain't breaking any laws before starting, for obvious reasons.

Cheers Lads
PS In reply to weareleeds post on the original thread, I actually sweated the new copper onto the lead about ten years ago. I actually used some lead plumbing gear from work, not solder as you seemed to think m8. The house is over a 100 years old & the original feed is still lead into the kitchen, so I didn't really have any other choice.

MOD 2

the thread would not have been locked if some idjut hadn't tried to take over it
and if he tries it again HE will be deleted

i will unlock the thread but if it starts again the lot goes

 

[Blasphemous]

I have no idea what happened in your last thread as I never saw it so I'm coming in cold here.

... Competence...

Hmmm, a simple yet some what confusing word!

The Gas Safety (Installation & Use) Regulations 1998 state:

'No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so'.

'Essential Gas Safety (Domestic)' which is the Corgi 'Bible' and is produced by Corgi, basically states that gas-fitting operatives are competent if they hold valid certificates of competence to cover the areas of work they intend to undertake. The certificates acceptable to Corgi are: ACS and S/NVQ.

So Corgi are saying Competence equals certificates in ACS and/or S/NVQ?

The 'Domestic Natural Gas Handbook' is a book, and a very good one IMHO, produced by Viper. Under its 'Interpretation' of Qualification & Supervision (which is where Competence is raised), it states that, Qualification and Supervision requires individuals to prove competence by holding the relevant 'ACS' certificates.

So errrr, there you have it, 'Competence'

Just a word of warning... How you wish to interpret the word is up to you. However, if something goes wrong, the way your Buildings Insurance interpret's the word I would guess will be along the same lines as Corgi's i.e. You may know what you are doing but as you are not qualified they 'may' refuse to pay out if something goes drastically wrong!

 

[corgiman]

Pleeeeeeeeeeeease dont start him off again

 

[kevplumb]

now then son

 

[Water Systems]

behave

 

[Blasphemous]

I have no idea what happened in your last thread as I never saw it so I'm coming in cold here.

... Competence...

The law says:

You must be competent.

1. If earning money then a Corgi professional badge.

2. If not earning money then no Corgi badge needed.

Competence.

This is judged by results - after the job is done.

Pre-qualifications (before the job is done) is another matter entirely - it does not prove competence. A DIYer can legally work without a Corgi ticket as he is not professional, so no need for a Corgi badge.

Have I missed something on here tonight or what?

Water Systems, calm down bonny lad. Read what I am saying... The word Competence is, as has been demonstrated by your reply, open to interpretation and if the side of his house blows out due to a Gas fault his Buildings Insurance may very well tell him he ain't getting any money because he didn't use a Corgi because that's how they have chosen to interpret the word.

 

[JohnD]

I know nothing, but if I did it myself and blew up the house because of a gas fault due to my mistake, I think the insurers could fairly describe me as incompetent, and a court might reasonably form the same view.

If I didn't make a mistake, and the house didn't blow up, and no-one was asphyxiated, they would have no reason to form an opinion.

If I employed a properly qualified Corgi who did a bad job, I would let my (executor's) insurers battle it out with his insurers.

If I employed an incompetent itinerant, with no qualifications and no insurance, I might be rather exposed.

If I was selling the house, and the buyer's surveyor detected incompetent work, I could reasonably expect some price quibbling.

 

[Blasphemous]

The word competence is not open to interpretation. It is judged on your actions - after the job is done. What you have done. If substandard you are incompetent. Corgi badge or no corgi badge.

So... If I Blow my house apart I may not have a home any more but at least I now definitely know I'm incompetent! And obviously so to do the Insurance Company because they will judge me on what I have done.

The penny has dropped thanks Water Systems... I now know why the original threads have been locked.

I'm off to bed now. I feel totally incompetent!

 

[kevplumb]

Anyway, if I am to take the replies correctly, can I do my own plumbing on the gas side, seeing as I know what to do & correctly ? I don't actually have to have a Corgi guy down to do the work ? icon_smile.gif

bear in mind it's you in the dock if it goes t__s up

 

[esra_ptrap]

I missed the locked post also which is a shame

A couple of comments ...

1. MOD: Why did you remove WS's last post as there was nothing offensive or irrelevant in it? At least apply your moderation equitably and allow freedom of opinion unless forum rules are breached. Whilst you may not agree with WS's posts he has the right to express them ... Unless you want this to become a closed forum for Corgi RGI's in which case its future is somewhat limited.

2. The essence of WS's post is factually correct though things are seldom so black and white (a fact WS often struggles with I think)

3. WS is not correct about competency only being judgeable on results after the event though as it is, in many walks of life (doctors, airline pilots, bus drivers etc) proven by demonstration as part of their qualification/certification processes ... In other words, you learn the theory to get the qualification and then demonstrate competence in a practical way to get your certificate to practice (and then do the same again on a regular basis to stay current) ... I do concede though that from a DIY'ers perspective competency will only become an issue after the event if things have gone horribly wrong.

4. There would be other factors to consider also in the "stood in the dock cos you blew the street up" scenario which would be used to assess competence ... Knowledge of current gas regs, knowledge of current HSE regs regarding domestic gas installations, possession of suitably calibrated test equipment and knowledge of how to use it ... The list goes on. In this scenario, however, a Corgi RGI would have equal difficulty proving competence IMO, because, they probably weren't

We must all accept that, as the law currently stands, a large percentage of consumers will DIY their gas installations, particularly as the big sheds and online suppliers not only sell everything they need to do the work but will happily advise on how to do it ... Many of the employees of one particular chain (who use older staff for their experience) are ex-Corgi RGI's

This isn't likely to change unless new legislation is forthcoming which makes DIY work on domestic gas installations illegal and, given the relatively low numbers of gas incidents resulting in major injury each year, I doubt this will happen ... And it could be argued that, if the figures are correct, it isn't necessary either.

Posters, having got their grandparents to buy them their shiny new boiler on the sheds 20% discount day for OAP's, will inevitably want some advice on how to fit it and we can either ...

1. Tell them to go get a Corgi.
2. Advise them that they should get a Corgi (the responsible thing to do) but answer their question anyway.
3. Turn the post into a personal Corgi 'v' non-Corgi slanging match.

As this is a DIY forum I advocate option 2 as at least we are adding to the posters competence by the advice we give and reducing the likelihood of them becoming the "accused".

Any debates about the legalities of this work and who can do what should be discussed in either a separate post or another forum as it simply gets in the way IMO.

 

[ollski]

If you have current acs / corgi your competence cannot be called into question but your negligence can instead.

 

[esra_ptrap]

If you have current acs / corgi your competence cannot be called into question but your negligence can instead.

Not true I'm afraid ... Competency is, like an MOT, only valid at the time it was tested and it will be tested again in court.

If you are considered competent you will then be judged to be negligent ... Far worse to know what your doing and kill the street than to do it in blind ignorance

Bottom line is ... If you kill your neighbours you'll have a hard time staying out of jail and being Corgi registered may increase the sentence not reduce it

 

[corgiman]

behave

sorry uncle systems can i have a lolly now???

 

[ollski]

If you have current acs / corgi your competence cannot be called into question but your negligence can instead.

Not true I'm afraid ... Competency is, like an MOT, only valid at the time it was tested and it will be tested again in court.

On this bit I will have to stand my ground. I have several certficates here from my acs that say on them 'certificate of competence' with an expiry date of 5 years from when I took them.

 

[corgiman]

there are many levels of competancy for example I like to think I am competant and know my stuff but in comparasion to Agile I am but a learner.

I still think the most competant person is the one who when faced with a job he aint sure about, stops thinks, reads asks then does